Identity Library

Veronika Becher 0:14
Hey everyone, and welcome to another episode of Identity Library. My name is Veronika Becher, and today I'm joined by my best friend.

Thank you so much for being here. It's part two. If you haven't listened to the other episode, it's part two of our talk about identity, names and origin. But basically, before we start, since icebreakers are such a nice thing, maybe we should

But, yeah, you wanna, you wanna start your Acapella moment, oh boy, how to break the rich girl? And you gone too far, because, you know, you don't matter if

sing. We just have session, and we realize that we are actually really good and we're not

Abdullah Najjar 0:46
actually Okay, okay.

you can rely on that's money. You can rely on your best money. You're a rich girl.

That's a nice way. I don't know if I could keep it going. I need to see the lyrics.

Veronika Becher 1:15
Oh my gosh, it's okay. I love how we low in disk space. Let's just hope that our computer will be okay, too much singing, just singing and having too much fun. But basically, today's topic of the episode is basically talking about names and the origin. But I guess rich girl is a good start, and I hope we're not getting

Abdullah Najjar 1:42
we're getting too derailing. Yeah, we're derailing from the conversation. So

Veronika Becher 1:48
we, we, we ate some muffins. Now consume something we should have not, but it's just chocolate muffins. I swear it's just too late. It was so funny. Oh my gosh, but yeah, we were talking about last episode about the name origin, and we get interrupted because someone called my partner in crime had a meeting to go to, only realizing that it's in two days. And so we rush, completely wrapped up the conversation and decided to completely run over to the other side of campus, only to realize that the door is closed. And this man just spent the past 45 minutes stressing over it while recording an episode of me and being like, I need to go back. And now he's stressed that we need to record the second part so we're here back in the studio. Oh, some Thank you for listening. By the way, I've been like hearing some good feedback about my podcast. I really appreciate anyone who's listening. And just like an update, we reach the 10 countries listening to my podcast. Whoa.

Abdullah Najjar 2:54
I didn't know that.

Veronika Becher 2:57
Thank you. Thank you. Basically, we even reached Australia, but that's also, I don't even know how that happened, but we're good. We're good.

Abdullah Najjar 3:04
No, that could be our friend, Holly.

Veronika Becher 3:09
She's living in the United States, potentially, but that's okay. No, I know who's talking me. So if you're from a different country, I will see that, because your Spotify will give it away. That's true, basically. Um, yeah, that's one of the things. Have you ever seen me on campus and you're like, I really want to know what your podcast is about, and what's the name? Well, my, one of my friends who was on my podcast called, you know, Lucas. He actually decided to get me for my birthday a little I think they called NC, and I think it's like, wait, wait, wait, NFC, oh my gosh. How can I shame on me? NC is crazy. NFC chips and these, this NFT and, oh my gosh. NFC chip works this way. You just have to put this chip on your phone and opens up right away, Spotify with my podcast on it. So my dear friends, if you wanna order joking, reorder for my friend. He starts a business selling NFC chips for my podcast now actually jumping into the conversation. Thank you for the really short introduction, and maybe too long introduction. Honestly, you want to say hi to our listeners. Oh

Abdullah Najjar 4:31
yeah, they know I'm here

for part two after you heard

me speak so much about the idea of names and the different nuances that a name captures. For our part one,

Veronika Becher 4:48
yes, and we will start into right away the alter eager, eager. Eager is crazy. Oh gosh. I feel like we can never have a proper conversation. To move on something. No, we don't do, you know that amount of times I have to adjust your, like, your voice, all the time, because you, like, super quiet, and then you switch up, and I have to, like, adjust it. DJ, oh, my goodness.

A lot of like, back and forth, I

know. And I'm like, don't move the microphone. Stay there. Stay with us. Yeah, we will, we will jump into Abdullah's Alter Ego called

Abdullah Najjar 5:30
John. Oh, yes. Oh, my goodness. I have so much to talk about with John, if

Veronika Becher 5:35
you, if you don't know yet, Abdullah has an alter ego. It's called John. And John is a different person, a spy, a CIA person, and a former teacher. Let's welcome John

Abdullah Najjar 5:53
to Hello everybody. This is John aka Abdullah. Well, okay, I'll try to, I'll try to talk about who John is, and for, for your viewers listening, that was me for, for a particular period of my life, I was known as a John Smith, and no, I was not a spy. I was not in the CIA, but Okay, so here's how it all started, actually, since I was a little kid, maybe in middle school, maybe I wasn't that little, but I was little when, when I first created an email, the emails name, or the name that I chose for my email was John Smith. Don't ask me why, but I was always fascinated by the name John and Smith, even though they're so generic, what does

Veronika Becher 6:55
it say about you? Honestly, if you ever meet this guy in front of me, he always says he's just the average Joe science birthday presents.

I can't believe write that up. And

then one of times that I criticize this guy and be like, can you stop saying you an average Joe, the person that I've probably seen more than anyone else I probably know, oh no. So average Joe apparently decided to call himself not Joe, but John. But John was to you know his real name, so we need nickname called Joe. If you haven't listened to the other episode, you know what I'm talking about.

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

So average Joe, oh my gosh. This is dress me nuts. I'm sorry. I'll

Abdullah Najjar 7:44
stop using it. I'll stop using average Joe but, but I that's, you know, I don't like it. When, when people well, I should probably go over to John's story and then delve into the average Joe thing. Okay, so note it down. So with, with, with John. At that point of my life, when I was in middle school, you know, again, I was really fascinated by this. This the name John, and, you know, the last name Smith. And I realized that they're very generic. But for some reason, Kid Abdullah was fascinated by that, and he created an account. His email was John Smith, something, you know, 317, or whatever. So fast forward to a time of my life, when I was in Libya. I accept a position in this one English teaching center for a short while, and I teach students basic English as a basic English course. Before I officially started teaching that center, my my boss at the time, was asking me if I could adopt a Western name and perhaps impersonate someone, or perhaps pretend to be a person From the west, not necessarily the US, but because of my, I guess lack of accent, people would assume that I'm American, and that happens quite often. So I actually accepted that challenge. I was like, I think I can pull that off. And so this

Veronika Becher 9:34
is how you double life as a spice. Got one.

Abdullah Najjar 9:39
So, you know, I start teaching at that school, and historically speaking, that center, English Teaching Center, slash school, always had foreigners teaching. But because of the downfall of Gaddafi, the dictator of my country, in 2011 most of the foreigners left the country, especially to one. Coming from the west, but the center had to maintain a particular image, and they found that I had perhaps looked more Western, dressed more Western, and sounded more Western. They thought that was a perfect opportunity for them to have a John Smith who could teach these students and at the same time, not blow up cover. But it was, it was, it was a mini it was. It started out as, like a, you know, a very casual thing, but then it, you know, I, you know, as days progress, I realized that everybody is actually falling for it, you know the students and I sometimes, because you ask yourself, like, if you, if you, if you were to meet me for the first time. And I never told you that my name is Abdullah and I'm from Libya. You probably wouldn't have guessed. You would have never even thought that I came from Libya. Well, partly because you never even met someone from Libya. So how could you tell, right? You can't I don't look like someone you've seen before. And second thing is, I don't seem to, perhaps, give that impression that I'm an Arab or that I'm from Libya. We all have stereotypes in mind. And you know, when those things don't don't match, it gets it gets tricky. So going back to my my John story, I start teaching at that center. I first day, I introduce myself to the students as John, and you know, I tell them, I never reveal where I'm from, but I've always had stories of the US, because I've spent some time in the US. And so when you hear my lack of accent. And when you hear these stories that are so detailed and they sound so real because they are real, your mind is already then you can no longer see me as a local or someone from Libya, especially when we're talking about the students who were exposed to me. And so oftentimes, you know, they would talk in amongst themselves in the classroom, and they speak Arabic, and they talk about me, and I never ever blue cover or broke character. And one of the things you learn about that experience, or one of the things I learned, is that this is that the whole thing was very different from acting, because with acting, you have a script, you know what you're going to do, you You You're rehearsed, you've trained. But when you contrast that to what I was doing, every day was a new experience, and you had to be quick on your feet. You cannot slip. And that was my challenge. Like I knew that I wouldn't slip, and I knew that I will not slip, even when a situation is to is to, I guess, maybe too intense. And I'll tell you, give you an example. There was one instance when one of the students was actually talking about my sister, and he was saying something that was negative, and he was speaking Arabic, and obviously at the time, you're like, can I, you know what would be the right approach that situation? Do I blow cover and stand up for my sister, or do I pretend as much as I did for the entirety of my time there,

Veronika Becher 13:22
and that's a question, yes, um, do you like, how did they know your sister? They didn't even know that I had a sister, but they were talking about her, and didn't know that you have a connection. They

Abdullah Najjar 13:35
were assuming that I had a sister, and they were talking about they were saying something about her,

Veronika Becher 13:41
so they were assuming you have a sister. How did they assume that if you had a specific image to uphold, and people didn't know your family background?

Abdullah Najjar 13:51
So they didn't know my family background, they assumed that I had a sister. They just assumed it. And they started talking, saying things, yeah. It's like, yeah, I would assume that you have a mother, but, but maybe you could be, I don't know. It could be an orphan. A mother could be deceased, but you would assume, okay, that makes sense, yeah, okay, um, so they didn't actually meet, like they never met her, and they don't even know of her existence, yeah? Just want to say, and that was my question, right? Okay, but yeah, they were saying something, and I didn't that situation. I didn't react. I just pretended that I didn't understand. And I remember another instance that's more, I guess, less, less intense, where my back was to the students I was writing on the board. And maybe I've shared this story with you before, but essentially, two of the students were talking to each other. I can hear them saying the following. One was saying to the other, hey, I think John is actually that British lady's son. We had a British lady in our center. She was married to a Libyan. And so the other guy replies, he's like, Well, how could that? You know that she's white and he's Brown. And then the other guy replies back, and he says, Well, you know, have you seen him clean shaven? He's as white as can be. And so my back was through the students, and my stomach, you know, starts shaking, but for me not to give away that I was actually understanding everything they were saying, I start moving my feet back and forth. So if I

Veronika Becher 15:32
see you move your feet up, I know that you're just a spy trying to not blow your cover. Thank you so much. Yeah, no,

Abdullah Najjar 15:40
I had to. And again, it goes back to what I was saying. I wasn't an actor. I was because if I weren't an actor, I would have had a script, I would have had everything already set up, but with this particular situation, every day was a new experience, and you had to be quick on your feet. So that was, you know, I was John for a while. No one figured it out, and as far as I know to my knowledge. And then what makes matters even more interesting is that eight months after I left that center, I was out with three friends of mine in the Old City of Tripoli. Two of my friends were American, the other friend was Italian. Their names were Paul Suzanne and Aaliyah. And I was walking around the Old City, and I come across two of my former students. And one of them is like, Hey, John. And I was like, Hey, how are you doing? And then I introduced them to my friends. I was like, Well, I want you to meet my friends. This is Paul, this is Susan, and this is Aaliyah. So in their mind, I couldn't be Libyan. It's impossible, because all of these situations that they found themselves in, all of the signs that they've seen, everything they you could never think that I was actually Libyan and every ever some some things were true, some things were not. But because of how overwhelming the truth was, or how true the truth was, you're like, I can't see through it anymore, because of all of these signals. The people that they met, they looked very American. They looked European. It's like if, even when I'm standing next to them, you wouldn't think that. Okay, yeah, I look sort of different. I look kind of mixed, but it's easier to assimilate. And so I meet these random students, and they called me John, eight months after I left. So it wasn't, it wasn't, it was so believable to these people. And so I, you know, I think, because of variety of reasons, I think it's easier for me to impersonate someone and pretend that I'm a person who I'm not, and that was the story of my John Smith,

Veronika Becher 18:05
didn't you have an encounter with the girl that actually really like you? Told her that you're not? John Smith, I don't know if you want to share

Abdullah Najjar 18:15
that. Yeah, that's okay. That's that's a good question. So that one woman was I had to reveal to her at some point that I was not a John Smith, and that person told me something, a secret that I cannot reveal about her life that might be, that might put her in immediate danger, and she only told me that secret because she thought I was an American, and everything else, everything was just so situational. And what I mean by that is there were there were truths, there were white lies, but because of of how overwhelming, again, the truth was, you can't really see through the lies. So she told me something that that definitely I cannot reveal, I obviously cannot reveal, the identity of the person. But she told me something, and I told her that this would definitely remain, you know, stay between us. And at some point, for a variety of reasons, I had to tell her who I was and that I wasn't a John Smith and that I'm a Libyan Dude, your average Joe. And so that was, to my knowledge, the only person that knew, and I don't think she would, she would have, or I don't think she she would have, she revealed my identity, any anybody, because, because of the fact, obviously, that I have her secret, very, you know, something. That again, I can't, kind of talk about but because of that, we both know that if she couldn't, if she were to reveal, I guess, my identity to people, and obviously there wouldn't be any sort of repercussions, like if those people that I taught knew that I wasn't a John Smith, that wouldn't change anything. Yeah, they were deceived, but it doesn't have any immediate repercussions, no consequences for it.

Veronika Becher 20:26
Didn't she react really strangely when you revealed that you're not a John Smith, and what I was thinking of kind of like to follow up with the story is how strange or more like, not a question, but more statement, how strange it is when people build a specific image of you, and once it gets broken, they completely like, it's the same thing you told me about my hair when you were like, the first time when you saw me, you had a different hair color, or, like, my hair is now a little bit, like, dyed, like lightly. And you were like, I have this image of you in the way I see you, and that was my first impression. And now it's just changed, and I can't get used to it. It's the same thing of names, right? So when she had a specific image of you being American, right? And you played it so well, the moment you told her that you're not American, something in her probably like, steered and was like, that's not what I wasn't thinking of, right? I'm

Abdullah Najjar 21:25
sure she can't even trust me anymore, and that is very and I understand why that is, because for the longest time, you've known me as that person, and everything I said to you, you've taken, you haven't taken with a grain of salt. You believed it to be true, and some of it was, you know, my obviously, the only lies that I remember was obviously my name, I never said where I'm from. A lot of stories I shared were actually true, but she already built an image like it was clear, and so she had a shocking actually, we we texted when I had to tell her, and she, you know, it was shocking reaction. It wasn't like a bad, negative reaction, but it was, you know, she was in shock. And then when I saw her again, for, you know, certain circumstances brought us together, she just couldn't even look at me anymore because I was just so it's like, man, she and I, what? Yeah, because how, how could you like like? That's how she would feel, right? How could you like? I shared with you one of my most intimate, I guess secrets, and now it's like I thought I shared it with a with a person, a particular person, and you're completely not that person. So yes, that, that whole trust just shattered, and I understand how she feels, but yeah, I mean, like, right now situation, you know you're referring to your hair, and how it's being dyed. It's, it's, you know, because I guess we, you know, we've known each other for a while. These things when they change, like hair, this something very like, minor compared to, say, identity, like, if I were to reveal to you right now that I am not the person that you've known for a while. I mean, I'm sure you would like, literally block me. You're like, I don't know this person. He's been fake, and I've revealed I've let him in my life. I've had conversations with him about certain things, and now he's not who I who, whom I've known for a while. I mean, you're talking about, you know, hair very, I guess, mild, or again, compared to something major. And even, like, my case, like maybe I had longer hair, and people now see me shaving my hair off, it's like, oh, what? What happened? You know what I'm saying,

Veronika Becher 23:58
Yeah, makes totally sense. I was thinking it just the image. I think singers do that too, right? They create a different name. Or I've also always think of when we talked on last episode about different pictures we have about Gary and Arthur. Well, I was thinking of all the philosophers that were women and wrote under a man's name. And I was thinking of how so many great like, I don't know, authors would use specific names to like, reveal their identity to reveal a certain picture, because nothing changed about the writing style, about what they tried to convey, right? The paper itself didn't change. The the topic didn't change. Nothing changed. It's just the name of the author that would have completely different criticism right behind it, and it's the same thing as. So genders and like certain names can reveal or help us achieve something that we want to achieve in certain fields, right? And it's more extreme. It was more extreme in the past than it is now. And I think it's just sometimes really, almost, I don't want to say scary, but how much names influence our identity overall. But

Abdullah Najjar 25:23
so you made an interesting point about how much a name what what a particular name carries, when we're talking about a woman who wants to use a man's name to write something influential, or something, you know, major, that name that's being adopted carries a particular, again, weight, and it's more the reception would be more in favor of it. And a basic example here would be but, and by the way, when someone I think that that's one thing I'd love to share here, maybe you know it, when someone adopts a particular pretends that they're writing in the name of somebody else, you recognize it. It's called a pseudepigraphy, yeah. And that's one thing where that happened a lot, in the ancient world, especially with the rise of the earth. You know, the Gospels, in the New Testament, like a lot of these books, a lot of people write use names of, you know, major apostles or disciples, and they write a book using the name of that particular disciple, because it carries a lot of weight. And so they're practically a nobody, but that person is a somebody. And so they write an influential piece of work, and they adopt that name because, you know that, that they would have a better reception. And so that is, you know, again, it's called a pseudepigraphy. And in layman terms, people would call it a forgery. And it is, you know, but it's Yeah, names, gosh,

Veronika Becher 26:56
I feel like we start this topic improvising, I would say, but we realized how much we didn't actually think about it as part of our identity, right? I was thinking, for instance, since you shared last time your like background of your name, I'm gonna feel like we have a good flow. I was named after a flower. Actually, that was specifically grows in like forests, like it's a wild small flower, and Veronica's actually whole, like family, like family, like family, family, plants family, sorry, plants family. And we're, like, in a plantain family was really funny. So I'm technically my flower bird flower is a banana, but it's like planting family and I was also named, so my name means, actually the victory bringer. And my mom was like, this is, like a strong name, like something you can actually like the victory bringer. So it's effect for someone who leads somewhere, because it, I think it's like, it has different origins in different countries. So I think, like, fun fact of the day, I guess. And then the other thing that it was like, I that I really wanted to, like just share is doing my little research on two things historical, two things that I really wanted to share about, like names that we were talking about. And it really depends on you. We can go into the average Joe first and then and then, kind of turn around to the like historical little stories.

Abdullah Najjar 28:42
Oh boy, gosh.

Well, I can, you know, the average Joe thing is pretty brief. I always, and I think you probably have discovered this about me by now, since you've known me for a short while, maybe a long while, depends how you look at it. I I really have, I do find myself very much interested in people and their stories, and I like having conversations with people, because I think there's a lot for me to learn from, from these engagements with, you know, different individuals, and I never really, I don't think I do very Well when it comes to praise like, I don't receive praise as I'm not, you know, I don't like comp. I compliment people. I just, I don't really do pretty well in receiving compliments, like I essentially, I receive compliments, but I don't really do very well in, in in sort of, I don't know what to do with them oftentimes. And so I guess I try to, you know, I tell people, you don't have to think too much of me. I'm just, I'm just a regular person. I'm just a regular guy. I'm not. I. I'm not who you think I am, you know, you whatever it is that you see, I'm sure there's more to it. And so I sort of adopted this thing of like, average Joe, because average Joe is, like, I think, an American expression that, you know, because Joe is pretty much a generic name, like Greg, an average you know, we know what that means. And so that that that expression, average Joe essentially means someone who's just pretty normal, like, it's like your average Joe, you know, that person doesn't stand out very he has a pretty typical life. There's nothing special about him. And so I sort of use that as a way of saying that I don't, I don't think I have, you know, there's, I'm just regular, normal guy. There's nothing really special about me. And you and I are at an equal footing. So I, you know, I tell oftentimes I tell you or tell someone, I'm just your average Joe, you know. So it's, that's the idea, yeah, and you keep telling me to stop using it.

Veronika Becher 31:06
I do. I do, yeah, but I can't really change anything about it. Basically, kind of like a little bit jumping around topics. I feel like we're left off one thing that belongs more to like first names and last names, is the thing we're gonna enter the realm of Veronica's history lesson. So when I moved to the south of Germany, um, I'm studied in a city called reutling. What's really funny, I feel like I'll study only in cities that start with an R. But basically, Reutlingen has one thing in common, and I haven't realized that till I moved to the south. What is more like east south area of close to Stuttgart? It's they are different cities that are called Reutlingen, eslingen, bublingen met singing. And I was like, wait a minute, what's happening? Do you hear the difference? It's like, why is it always ending with the same word? Ingen England? And so I started my research. Many people don't know about that they live in the area. It is just a really interesting fun fact history lesson. So basically, what happened? Apparently, it goes back to, like, the really early ages of not even Germany, of like, just the area of Germany. And what happened the first civilization that decide to settle down in these areas. They wanted to create a concept to know who belongs to what group of people and who is part of a specific group or like, not for the country, not city, I know, clan, whatever you want to call it village. And since there's was such a huge area, they had to create a system behind it. So England is the system. Every place that was called something with England in the end of the name would belong to one big, big group of people that all belong to each other. It's what it's kind of like, it explains to someone, to a stranger, who just enters where you're from. Oh, I'm from rightling. So you know that you belong to the Indian group. But then it goes even further, and I'm like, What is, what does it have to do, actually, with names now, well, the right reitle, right part the beginning part of the name of the actual city name is the name of the main person that is the leader of the sub group of the big group. And so names were used, and this is just really interesting fun fact to identify yourself with certain sub groups of the huge ingen group. So if you're part of the huge in group, you wanted to know who is the head of your little mini sub group. And a mini sub group belonged to reutel. So someone who was named was reutil And so reitlingen is just a combination of the main man that was in charge of this sub group and belonging to bigger group that was people just settling down completely in the south and a little bit more to the west of Germany.

Abdullah Najjar 34:27
And that's the first name, the first name of the man, yes,

Veronika Becher 34:32
and no, it kind of like it's not 100% because they're like, med singing, so Mets, so they're different. Like, sometimes use last name, sometimes his first name, but it's a name that identifies him with, and people just knew him of. And then the other thing is, names went as far as like kind of the origin, so you identify yourself with a certain place by having your own name, but also the actual. Where You Live would have also specific identification, like you have a specific identity because you're part of the specific clan. And then to make it even further, the way German city names, or like little town names were created, tell you about the geographical area in what is there? So Brau Bach, example. Bach means little lake, little stream of water. Let's go this way. So that means there's water. So if you live there, that means you live close to the water. Specific other like endings of like the city names? Would it then like give you an indication of who do they belong to? What is the group? Is there a church? Is the water? Is the high water, low water? Can you actually get your animals across the water? Is it dangerous? Is it slippery? Are they like frogs? I don't know. There's so many aspects. And so the thing is, what comes back is just a lot of the names of the leader of a specific client would be mentioned in these names too. And that's kind of how German city names were, not all of them, but some of them were established. It's like a whole, whole thing you can study about, like Dusseldorf, where I live, this and Dorf. Dorf is Village. This is the river that used to be shaping the whole area that created the valley to begin with. And so people that called themselves, I'm from Dusseldorf, were actually people that lived in this little village by the river.

Abdullah Najjar 36:35
Well, that's, that's a very fascinating thing, because it touches on, well, it touches on a couple of things that I think can be considered universal. One is how in the ancient world, they didn't have for them to make sense of, perhaps certain places or your for them to have a consistent maybe record, they had to use this method of, sort of attaching maybe a church or a river or another object to a particular location, and then that name sticks for ages. And oftentimes people use a profession as a form of identification, like even for me, my last name is naj translates to the carpenter. So I reckon back in the day I came from, you know, maybe a clan or a tribe that was a tribe of carpenters. So they called them the carpenters. And what's even more interesting is that in the ancient Middle East and maybe in the ancient world as well. There was no such thing as last name. We even, even today, like some of the people in my country, have a last name that literally translates to the son of so and so, like, if you hear, if you if my lot, if my name is Abdullah, Ben, Adam, Ben literally translates to son of Adam is a name of a person. So you notice it, even with like the Gospels, um, you know, go back to the ancient world, John the son of Zebedee, or, you know, Mary Magdalene. Magdalene, a lot, a lot of scholars, are trying to figure out what, what, what's, what does Magdalen refer to? Because, you know, it's oftentimes the second name has something to do with a location, maybe a river or an object by which you identify that person. And, you know, Jesus, Christ. Jesus last name is not Christ, it's just Jesus the anointed one. That's what it means. And even they had, you know, again, ancient Jews, they had been yadam, the son of Adam, and that, that thing been sort of passed through all these generations. And you have a region today where a lot of these people's last names have this thing where they are literally called, I don't know, Muhammad, son of like, that's their last name. Their last name is literally the son of someone, they don't even have a last name, so that and that, you know, that sort of, it's, it's stuck, you know, like over millennia, right? Like almost 2000 years, you still use the same thing. And it goes back to even Germany, like, you still use that very basic concept as consistent to this day, of identifying a place based off of, I don't know, a river church, a rock or whatnot, and we still use it. Last

Veronika Becher 39:49
names in German really often have certain professions in mind too, like Schmidt, for instance, is really like common. And then we. Of, I don't know. I always love, like, I have no idea who gave my family the last name that I have because it means cup. Like, actually, I'm just like, a cop. Becker is cup actually, wow. So every single time when people call me Becker, I'm like, people, um, that's actually not the same, because Becker means Baker. So that's a profession, that's a different thing, that's a family who probably were bakers. Honestly, it's, it doesn't have to be the case now, but it can come back from like being, oh, this is the person. This is your profession. So this your last name, so we can identify you based on your last name. It's easier. And then I also, what I had to, like, check up on is the origin of where, like, the whole strategic, like, structure came into place with having a last name, middle name and so on. And it is something that is derived for, like, the early Roman Empire. And I don't know, I haven't looked much into like the Greek, like Greek time, Greek times. That's

Abdullah Najjar 41:07
crazy Greek.

Veronika Becher 41:08
I was like, that's not the way we say that ancient Greek. But what Rome like a fun fact. Maybe that's really interesting for me, at least, I think I have mentioned to you, but you know, you lose scissor, Caesar. I don't know how you like pronounce his name in English, Julius, Caesar. Yes. Julius is not his name. And many of you forget about that, right? That is, his name is Gallus. That's how we called Gallus. You lose Caesar. And the funny thing is, Ulus is actually not his middle name either, and not his last name either. Oh, so the way, and that's what I had to research and be sure that I'm not like saying something crazy. But the way it works, the Roman, during the Roman, earlier Roman Empire, they decided to create a specific structure of how you would name a person, and this is where the last name comes into place. So you give him a name and a last name, there's a different like word for it that actually people use in literature that I don't think like, it's like the name. Yeah, exactly name. And then you have a middle name that is not a middle name, actually the middle name. Let's call it for for no middle name is actually the client name. So it's something so Ulis, what we use all the time for him is actually his clan name. And his clan name is an indicator of what is his family. Where is he from? Type of thing, the origin of his family. So what it says actually, is that he is from a really well family, because Julius is actually the clan of Yulia. That's really funny. And there are other, like, also, oh, like, other names that you can like, name it too. And it has first, a divine meaning, so that people that are from the Yulia, Yulia, like clan, are divine beings because they come back to, there's a whole, like, whole lineage of going back to like goods and like, like, all the like, not goods, that's crazy. Pronunciation, gods, oh, my God, you're good gods. And all the people that used to be divine beings are derived, probably later on, from this lineage. What's really crazy, I think, if you think this way, and then the second thing is, they just really wall off. Thank you. Oh my gosh. Nine o'clock is not the time for these top of lessons. And so every single time, you could also add, and this is the nickname story we had in the other episode. So please listen to it, you could add a nickname that would actually so you add a fourth thing, it's a nickname to the name. In the nickname indicates your rank or your accomplishment, something you've accomplished in society, so something you actually have done that makes you you get this like specific, like surname, almost

Abdullah Najjar 44:21
kind of like modern day Britain, with the tag toward at the end of your name reveals something about you, and you earn it from the Queen,

Veronika Becher 44:33
yes. And so the clan name what they called nomen or cook, nomen, I don't know C, O, G, no, man, I don't know how to pronounce it. Okay, I don't know either, um, but that's like how it works. What's the name, like of this middle name is? And so you would know based on the name, what is this family background? Who is this person, and what's this last name? And so. He never actually went by his first name. People end up just knowing him by Ulis, Caesar, Caesar. But all we know, we don't use his first name at all the whole time. We do like Galileo, but we just don't use his first name. Was really interesting. We use his influential name. And it's actually, I was thinking about it in don't me wrong, I'm not the historian here, but I think the idea of using someone's name that has such a tremendous weight associated with divinity, like or like divine, divine people divine, like background and being from a really influential family that was for years, for generations, and the military and politics and anything else like involved in these, like, type of circles has such a tremendous weight. First of all, you're credible. That means you're someone who is really important already, because your family lineage continue being only producing, like, really influential people, and then the other thing is being an offspring of a god. Oh, yeah. Oh, it means everything you do is actually divine. That's

Abdullah Najjar 46:12
that's very and that's where I think one of the emperors wasn't Octavius or Augustus adopted by one of the emperors at the time. I think so. Yeah, okay, he was adopted, right? And that, I think one thing I one thing I learned about that ancient Roman world is that adoption at that time actually meant something more significant, because it's like you were chosen into that family. It's not like you were born to it. You are chosen to be part of it. That means you have something about you that's unique and significant. And so, you know, imagine being chosen by someone who has been exalted into heaven, like imagine you're an emperor, and then you adopt someone. And then, you know, you hear stories after that person died, dies that that person was exalted into the into the heavenly realm, or living with the gods. It's like you were literally adopted by a god. You know what I'm saying, and that back in the day, in ancient Roman world, I mean, that was that line was blurry. You know, like you can that there was no such, you know, there wasn't much of you know the deep separation between the godly realm and the human realm. Like a lot of people get exalted, right? And so imagine being an emperor. You're adopting someone, then you die, and you hear these stories of how that person was exalted. You're like you are now the Son of God.

Veronika Becher 47:38
What's the same thing of like, Marquis like, do you see Marquis readings? No, no. We're not talking about people. We're talking about a title. Like, if you're, I don't know, not a king, but if you have certain, like, a certain title in society, that also is the same weight. Why do you get married off to certain family because they have influence, because they have a certain title, and you it feels like the title is the one that actually you identify with. It's like identity. Back then, even now, we saw families that have like titles, and used to be part of a certain like group of people that were really influential. And if you think this way, well, your your name actually had such a tremendous influence on how people perceived you. You could have been a normal, like person who just got adopted and you just and beforehand, you were no one, right? But now you're somebody. You're somebody because of a name, right? Isn't this absorbed? It's crazy. Add a name to something and then it becomes

Abdullah Najjar 48:53
divine. Yeah? Special, yeah? Someone,

Veronika Becher 48:56
you can actually not judge for their actions, no matter how they lead on a whole nation. But if, because the person is divine, it's solidified into like, right?

Abdullah Najjar 49:08
But the inverse is that is there are certain names where it's like, we can no longer utter that name because of the negative legacy it left behind, or the negative weight, because you can go both ways, right? I'm sure we don't hear as many adults around nowadays, right? But we still have Yeah. Best example think

Veronika Becher 49:33
of Harry Potter. Harry Potter,

Abdullah Najjar 49:34
yeah, the name which we do not utter, they say yes, yeah, Voldemort. I was thinking I was thinking. I was actually for Hitler. I was talking. I was thinking about Voldemort. I swear to God, that which we do not utter,

Veronika Becher 49:49
it's it's crazy, right? You don't talk about it. You don't talk about certain people, you don't talk about certain names, right? It is such a strange, strange thing to not. Mention a name, because now it has such a tremendous weight, like, I don't think anyone would call their child now Adolf, because of a certain background in Germany. And if you do that will be something I don't know to think about. I'm sorry for everyone who's called out of I'm sorry. I'm just saying, and that's sad, because a lot of like old names, they just disappear out of society. They and you also sometimes, okay, don't get me wrong. There's a certain like thing where I'm like, parents try to, let's go to resurrect old names that are just somewhere hidden in there. There's a reason why they're hidden, and people don't name their kids like that anymore, and then they like we need to uphold the tradition of this family, meaning we need to use your great grandma's name, but also, because you can add another name as a middle name, you we're gonna use the other great grandma's name, and now you're part of the family. So like being part of Yulia, Yulia Caesar, and you're part of it. So we unite you with your ancestry. And then you're sitting in class and be like, Why the heck did this person call me Ulrike, Olivia Gladiolus? I don't know whatever it is. And you're like, there's a beauty to like, look back and bring back names that were really old and had this traditional meaning. But also sometimes you shouldn't, sometimes you should embrace the new names. But there is also this thing, I'm so sorry. I feel super emotional about this topic. This is like crazy input something about Americans with much love, please don't kick me out of this university. I'm still trying to apply here. But basically, Who names their kids? Autumn, summer in Sydney, Paris, like Sydney in

Paris. This

is the strangest thing you could call your name, the kids is places. And

Abdullah Najjar 52:03
season of the year. Oh, wait a minute, I thought you meant someone was named Sydney in Paris. I would have been like, that's very creative. But okay, so here's where I honestly, honestly, I love the name. I love the name, Sydney.

Veronika Becher 52:24
Okay, this is how you can leave the chat.

Abdullah Najjar 52:30
Well, here's, here's what. Okay, let me, let me tell you this. I remember, you know, saying this to saying this. I don't know who I said this too, but I remember saying that if I ever had a daughter, I'm gonna name her Dolores. And I got a response that that was to the effect of, like, that's an old lady's name. You don't want to name your daughter that. But you know all there are some old names that I definitely don't want my kids to be named after. But there are some old names, and there are some season names, like summer or Sydney, I wouldn't name it Paris.

Veronika Becher 53:12
Well, Paris, I'm sorry. Nothing against French people. But no, no, we're not doing that. It's, there's a there's a different thing that's actually funny story. Maybe, maybe it's funny. I cannot ever Over my dead body. If I ever have a son, call my son Gunter or Gustav. Oh, Gunter, Gunter. And the crazy thing about Gunther and Gustav is that I have a specific it's not even that they're old names. It's the fact that I have a certain association that no one else will get. And so I'm gonna show it. I actually never showed it, actually, besides to my mom, who, still to this point, can stop laughing because I keep naming things Gunther and Gustav, because it's funny. Basically, when I was back in high school, middle school, I used to work for the library there in a library, in comparison to American libraries that look always so fancy, so nice, and you know, you look go to hell library, and then you only worry about all the chemicals that will probably kill you and give you cancer for the next 10 years. Wait, what? True. How do you call them? PCBs? Oh,

Abdullah Najjar 54:25
yes, in Hill Library. Me too, but

Veronika Becher 54:29
yeah, especially if you go upstairs. Sorry, my dear people. I hope this episode will not get blocked because we shared something we should have not but it was official. Um, basically, we had a basement with old books. If you think of old, old books that are on the shelves where there are random animals running around and crawling you don't even know what that's exactly what it is. I worked basement without any windows. I. Um, basically, we had a disclaimer. If anyone cannot listen to the story, please just pause here. We're talking about a dead rat that we or a mouse we discovered. It was a mouse we discovered. And because no one wanted to get rid of this mouse, this mouse end up, and I'm sorry, I'm gonna see something we were in middle school, so please don't judge us for ethical, unethical behavior. We put a sign up and called the first mouse that died in our basement, Gunther. Oh

Abdullah Najjar 55:36
no, not the Gunter or the dead rat. Gunther,

Veronika Becher 55:41
Gunther, gun to so every single time when people would enter to get books, and then beginning of the year, school year, we had to exchange them and give them out. People will come in, because nothing was digital at the time, right? People who will come in, and we like, Please greet Gunther. Too bad, because it was such an old base, but you wouldn't even smell that there was a dead red someone a corner or mouse, so, and then the second one that joined this body was Gustav. So that's how Gunther and Gustav end up being our best friends for, I think, two years, they were laying there and dying in to really slowly, you know, living their life. And then after that, I started naming all my spiders, Gunther and Gustav. And my mom just can't stop laughing about the fun fact that I just use it. I'm like, see this spider in the corner? That's Gunther. And do you see the other one? That's good stuff. Welcome to our club. So they're not dead. They're alive. Just saying disclaimer, you

Abdullah Najjar 56:41
just destroyed my image of Gunter and gusta. Right now,

Veronika Becher 56:44
the way you say Gunter is like, so funny, because it's like, reminds me of a completely different word. And Gunther is the word how we pronounce. Oh,

Abdullah Najjar 56:52
Gunter. This is insane. I would never now see I can't now. Every time I see a rat or a mouse, they go, here's Gunther

Veronika Becher 57:07
Gustaf and Gunther. These are like two names. They just stay in my heart forever. And I'm sorry that I had such a long story about random names, but this is what associations with certain names do to you exactly. You can't take someone serious anymore after their name is Gunther. So please, my dear friends, if you want to be on my podcast, your name is gunta Gustav, feel free to share with me this episode.

Abdullah Najjar 57:30
Well, that's the thing. Like, you know, earlier I mentioned, you know, Gary, Gary Indiana, or Greg. They're like, they give, they just give an impression of, like, you know, lazy guy, middle aged, very like, probably still living alone, maybe living with his mom, actually, 40 years old, still a virgin. Um,

Veronika Becher 57:55
it's a crazy description. I'm sorry if you if that's your name, I'm so sorry we didn't try to Yeah, no. And if you have to feel offended, find the news boys head on our campus.

Abdullah Najjar 58:06
You see me walk your own news Boy, that's me, but that's another image, right? Even the way we dress and the way we talk and the way we carry ourselves, if you are, if you have a particular presentation and your name just doesn't match. People have a cognitive dissonance. I swear to you, I've had that happen a lot where it's like, we cannot. We find it so difficult to think that you are actually Arab, or that your name is Abdullah, or that you you don't even or that you speak Arabic,

Veronika Becher 58:41
and apparently you're too white, right?

I never got, I never had that. Well, yeah, maybe

we did have a conversation like that today where one of my, you know, mutual friends, ask you what skin color they would put you in. You remember, oh, yeah, when we're sitting outside, actually, two days. Oh yeah, two days,

Abdullah Najjar 59:03
yeah, whatever. I didn't think you were gonna bring it up, but I yeah, that was that was interesting. I have that happens sometimes, oftentimes, a lot of times, what

Veronika Becher 59:15
skin color are you? How do you identify yourself with? What is your race? Oh my gosh, the question you never get asked in Germany, but then here, it's such a big, big thing, but maybe, maybe not, drifting off into the race discussion that we can carry on for the next 10 years, continue on the path of names and origins. Yeah. Well,

Abdullah Najjar 59:37
well, another thing, something else that I just find very it really, really fascinates me. When the name name John, we go back to the name John in my in the Arabic language, it's called, yeah, yeah. And if you translate it. Here it comes, you translate that. It kind of relate. It kind of, it's like the one who lives like, that's the rough translation, the one who lives. And I go back to the origin, you know, to the origin of that name John. And I think in it was very common. I think it originated honestly. I think it originated ancient in the in back in the ancient Middle East, during the time of, yeah, some not when Judaism became an established religion. But I think maybe around that time, my memory is here fuzzy, but it does have, I think, some sort of relation to Yahweh, you know, the God of the Old Testament, Yahuwah, and then you have Yahya, and you have Yohanna, Johannes, right? Yohanna is John. Yohannes is also John. And you see how that name in my in my country, before I learned English, I never knew that yah, yah was actually John, and I didn't know that Johannes until I, you know, I got to know Johannes. I didn't know that that was John, and I didn't know that. I didn't even know about Yahweh or Yahweh, you know, Yona.

Veronika Becher 1:01:29
There's so many, so many versions of this name that just continue, you know, growing and developing, and all have the same origin, right? Name origin. But

Abdullah Najjar 1:01:41
you think about it, and you're like, I never have there are certain names where I don't have a consistent image in my mind, like I hear a John, and I don't think I have an image in my mind of who a John is going to look like. You know, if you, if you, if you tell me my name is, is, I don't know, like Luke, I have it. I have an image of a Luke in my mind. I have an image of of Peter. You know, that is something that, you know, that I sort of can my mind can conjure up an image. And one thing I learned is that Peter, only emerged after the after the gospels were written, because that name didn't exist before, like, it came from Petros. The name Petros the origin, which is ancient Greek word for, like, I think, rock or something. And then, you know, it was always in the Gospel narratives, Peter was considered the rock, or, I don't know, but anyways, that name John. Like, there are names where I don't have a particular image in my mind, but there are names when I'm like, Yeah, I can envision that person. So when I ask you, for example, Hey, if you were to tell your friends, I have a friend named Abdullah, maybe because the name is not too familiar, it's hard for them to conjure up an image. Or if they had an exposure to the Arabic culture, they might have an image. You know what I'm saying, like, it's, it's so it's interesting how certain names are associated with certain things. But there are names where it's like. I don't have any notion of how the person might look like.

Veronika Becher 1:03:26
It's the same with, you know, every single time when you felt paperwork in like German paperworks, it's always Max Mustermann. Max Mustermann. So Max is max in German, and most of mine is pattern. Man, so pattern in a way, of, like, it's an example the like, you know, how, what is it in English? John, no, it. Who do they use as a name before you fill out, like, how to fill out a form, like a specific, like, I know, Visa form or anything. They put, like, a specific name on it, on the sheets, just as an example. And so pattern, I forgot what the American equivalent is, but, but it's like man is just man. And so most pattern man, but pattern, in a way, of like, it means something different. It means like, more the structure of the paper. And so it's an example, and it's funny, because Max becomes, as a name, a super generic one that you can actually pinpoint and put, like, a filter on. It's the same with John, because you see it all the time, and all papers is always Max musterman. Max musterman, so you're like, I don't know what you would use as an example. I'm like, thinking, if there's a different one for it, there's an A us one. A us

Abdullah Najjar 1:04:50
one is John. Like, that's like, you have John Doe, John Doe, John Doe, okay, yeah, because that's probably the most generic one. Yeah. John would be considered very generic.

Veronika Becher 1:05:04
Oh my gosh. I was just looking it up, and I'm like, what is the average? What is no, why wouldn't Max musta man be in America? And then in German, it's answered. Synonyms are John Smith. That's me. It gets better. It gets better in Joe Average,

Abdullah Najjar 1:05:24
oh, my God. Oh, my goodness. It speaks to how much, how much of an average person I am using generic, generic names to describe myself,

Veronika Becher 1:05:38
apparently, is the same with the last and Mullah, super common, or

Abdullah Najjar 1:05:42
Schmidt. Schmidt, yeah, even here, there's Schmidt, it's so common,

Veronika Becher 1:05:49
I don't know it's it's just crazy. John average, the other two choices that I just want to mention, okay, Joe Public, you can if you want to. But I like the last one, Joe six pack. Oh,

yeah, I know that one. Yeah, I recognize that one. So

whenever you want to change your identity and become a not average Joe or Joe Average, you can become Joe six

Abdullah Najjar 1:06:16
Yeah, more than average. I don't have a dad bod. I have it six back now.

Veronika Becher 1:06:24
So depending on what you want to be, Joe Public, John John Smith

Abdullah Najjar 1:06:29
and Joe Evers and Joe six back, that's my new one. That's how I'm gonna sign off my name, Joe six back, you're Joe six pack

Veronika Becher 1:06:45
journalist, and you write a book, you should use it as your like name on paper, so it's like, I'm actually not Abdullah. I'm John Smith. But also you can call me John six.

Abdullah Najjar 1:06:58
Oh, that would be hilarious. But no, I always thought about it like, what would my foreign name be? Like? What would my Western name look like? And I've always thought like, what would sort of fit, you know, like, how would if I were to introduce myself? And I tell people, Hey, my name is, I don't know the Theopolis or he's a weird, like, Greek name, okay, but, but if I tell someone that my name is, like, uh, Timothy, like, maybe people will be, you know, I don't see it like, it doesn't work, but maybe there are names where I can say my name is so And so, and people would find it believable, right? If you

Veronika Becher 1:07:43
give me a name in your specific like, world, okay, what name would you give me? Oh,

Abdullah Najjar 1:07:51
like, what name would I adopt for me? Oh, for you, for my world, yeah. Oh, gosh, I would probably think, I would, yeah, we have a name Sarah. I would think you would be more of a Sarah. Yeah, I would think, I would think you're, you would be a Sarah or me do Lean, which is, I think, roughly speaking, Magdalen, actually,

Veronika Becher 1:08:23
Veronica is also something that people forget all time for some

Unknown Speaker 1:08:27
reason. Also, I would think of Lena. Lena Veronica

Veronika Becher 1:08:31
is actually a religious name too,

Abdullah Najjar 1:08:35
yeah, but it came from a guy actually Veronicas, and

Veronika Becher 1:08:40
it's that's actually interesting. Yeah, I think because holy Veronica exists in the Bible, she does, yes, a lot of people,

Abdullah Najjar 1:08:52
okay, I'm actually gonna go to Google right now. Holy

Veronika Becher 1:08:54
Veronica exists because she was the one helping Jesus, and I'm done.

Abdullah Najjar 1:09:02
I thought it was Mary Magdalene who was no

Veronika Becher 1:09:05
but there is a different story that goes with holy Veronica specifically. And please don't google holy Veronica

Abdullah Najjar 1:09:12
Veronica. Yes. St Veronica is known as Go ahead. Veronica was a widow from Jerusalem who lived in the first century. Ad according to extra biblical, Christian sacred tradition. Oh, extra so it must be in the in the Apocrypha, the books that didn't make it to the to the New Testament, so that there are collection of books that never made it to the canon. And I reckon this is one of them, because in it says, according to extra biblical, Christian sacred tradition, celebrate Saint in many pious Christian countries the 17th century. ACTA Sanctorum, published by the bolandest, listed her feast under July 12, but the German Jesuit scholar Joseph Braun cited her commemoration and festi Marianna on 13th January to

Veronika Becher 1:09:58
add San Veronica. Renowned, legendary woman who moved by the sight of Christ carrying His cross, gave him her handkerchief to wipe his brow, after which, he handed it back, imprinted with the image of his face. And so that was like the fancy thing. Okay, before you

Abdullah Najjar 1:10:17
can continue, do you know where this is celebrated? All of this three churches, the Anglican Catholic and Western orthodox. And that's

exactly, exactly,

Veronika Becher 1:10:26
exactly.

Interesting thing is, my family is Russian Orthodox, right? So my mom and Russian Orthodox people, and that's the thing we have. One thing to identify Russian Orthodox people is we have in our houses, little like, like pictures. I don't know how you call them, portraits of, like, holy people. No, well, not really sculpture. Sculptures is more like a 3d thing. This is a 2d format, like a painting of Maria, holy Maria, or so on. And so my mom brought back when she went to Jerusalem for me, like a little pendant with holy Veronica on. It was apparently also really well known in Jerusalem. So

Abdullah Najjar 1:11:14
well you we, you know that's, yeah, that's where all that stuff emerged. But

Veronika Becher 1:11:21
actually, I feel like this is a sign we should stop this conversation. It's gonna be, like a whole religious story.

Abdullah Najjar 1:11:26
But yeah, we could. We're gonna go down the rabbit hole here. It's gonna be Yeah, but

Veronika Becher 1:11:31
yeah, names have such, like, significant impact on our image. And I think, yeah, people have certain images about Abdullah and Veronica, and if they can actually pronounce my name with a K, God.

Abdullah Najjar 1:11:47
But what would you call me in your so I gave you three, perhaps options, Lena, Sarah or Magdalene, mesh, doline. I see I see you as more of like a Lena. I wouldn't like if you would be like a Lena, yeah, I think, yeah, it

Veronika Becher 1:12:06
works. Like if you will be in Germany or in Russia, like we can do both. This gonna be a long episode, but, um, Russia, oh, I would have to think about it much longer than what you just called out right away, because Abdul is like a name that people use in Russia. Since we have an influence of Tajikistan and like other like places that used to be part of the Soviet Union, where names like that are really prominent, we have a lot of countries that belong to the Soviet Union and where Muslim oriented, yeah,

one way, at least, they would say there were Islams,

Islam Island,

exactly, if you haven't. I feel like people that will only listen to this episode. They're gonna be so confused, yeah, but um yes, the Islams,

my friends, are gonna laugh so hard.

Yeah, they should listen to this episode and the other one too. Yeah, you should recommend it so we get more countries in. Oh, yeah, um, breaking the record. But, um, you'll be a Theo, Teo, Theo, no, Teo, just a Theo, even though I wouldn't say that's like really, really German, but to be like something based on how you like, but you could also have, like, a really old fashioned name, German old fashioned name, because of the way you dress, they're gonna be wrong, please.

Abdullah Najjar 1:13:46
I don't get you wrong. I dress like a my friend tells me my my one of my good friends. I told you about him. He's in DC. He tells me, you dress like a 1960s American.

Veronika Becher 1:13:58
Honestly, I would have to think a whole episode. And come back to you about the names, oh boy,

Abdullah Najjar 1:14:05
but I do see, I do see my tail. Yeah, I see that Victor, Victor,

Veronika Becher 1:14:11
not trying to, because people call me Victoria, but victor will be also Victoria. Oh my gosh, the amount of times yes,

Abdullah Najjar 1:14:18
because I called you Victoria in our first episode, I did, I did. I'm sorry, yeah, I was like, people call you Victoria, actually, I did. Sorry you were saying. I'm

Veronika Becher 1:14:34
thinking of, like, typical Russian names, but I need to think about it more. To give you, like, a strong, strong, like,

Abdullah Najjar 1:14:42
strong Russia, name yes, guy who's gonna fight a bear? Yes, exactly. Dimitri di metric, gorus,

Veronika Becher 1:14:51
go Bucha.

My name is Boris yels. Does that work? Yes, no. I got. Gonna stop. I'm gonna stop. Victor

is like Vitya, so like a like a nickname, so Vitya, maybe last fun fact before we finish this episode, last fun fact about Russian names was really interesting. Russian language works this way because we talked in last episode about how you call sometimes each other, habibi. And the way it works in Russian language is you can use any name, mostly names that are already used in Russian. It's a little bit difficult with four names sometimes, but they always have nicknames and several nicknames. And you can create out of each name that you use a sweeter, cuter version of it. Oh, I love that. So what my parents never actually called me by full name. They My mom calls me Verona, and she pronounces better than I do, but just saying, and my dad calls me Verona. What Verona is technically different name. If you look into like Verona, you know, said yes, but it's also a name. And my my dad, uses a nickname of my name, and it works. And the crazy thing is, you can even conjugate these nicknames. So because in Russian, you have to adopt the or, like, conjugate the name to depending on the sentence structure and what you're trying to say. So you're like, please come here. You don't just say Abdullah, come here. You change the ending of the name so it matches the sentence structure. So when my mom calls me up, she's like, Viron. Viron is like to call me like to shorter version, vironia. Virun, um. They're like different versions. And how you, like, can, like, use Russian names, and it's very interesting. So you could, like, create any like, sweeter versions. A good example, Max like, because we talked about Max mustaman, Max, it's Max because we pronounce it different. What is derived from Maximilian was like the full version, right? Yes, in Russian, the way you would say it, you can say Maxi, where there's a really cute version of Maxi, of Max, right? And it will be fine. My mom doesn't go by Yulia. She goes by Eula because it's a cuter version that people use only in like, familiar settings, more and so maybe, like, a fun fact about nicknames, but yeah, gosh, I can't,

Abdullah Najjar 1:17:34
I can't believe we, I think now we spent more like two hours talking about names, and

Veronika Becher 1:17:39
it's so undone, technically, if you think this way, but the significance of names is just super, super, super high. So my dear friends, thank you so much for being here part of this episode. I really, really loved it. Having you here on board, you will come back sure, like the amount of times we have so much fun, it's just crazy. And I really appreciate listening, and I hope it was a nice, maybe refreshing episode about historical backgrounds. And we should do more. We should really do more of that. Yes. Do you want to say anything else before we close it up? Thank you for thank

Abdullah Najjar 1:18:21
you for having me. Veronica, I really enjoyed this. I think, I think there's so much more to talk about, but I think we, we've, we've, I don't, I didn't expect that we would talk about names for like, two hours straight, maybe separate, you know, separate hours. But this is fascinating. I think you have a lot of interesting perspectives, honestly. So thank you for having me.

Veronika Becher 1:18:43
Well, I'm getting compliments. So compliment back to you. Thank you so much for listening, and I wish you a wonderful week. Bye bye bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai