Identity Library

00:00
Veronika Becher
Foreign. Hey everyone, and welcome to another episode of Identity Library. My name is Veronika Becher and today I'm joined by Tommy Goodwin Godwin. Godwin. Oh my gosh, this is like shame of me.

00:27
Tommy Godwin
People do that all the time.

00:29
Veronika Becher
No, the amount of times that I'm trying to record someone's life last name and I pause every single time, look at my guest and be like, I have no idea what's happening. It's just tremendous. So sad. But thank you so much for joining us today. Super, super happy to just have you here.

00:46
Tommy Godwin
I'm glad to be here.

00:48
Veronika Becher
And dear listeners, yes, I was unavailable, dying of lack of sleep these past months and I did not record for a whole month. So I'm sorry for everyone who want to listen to my podcast. But I'm back in the stud. Hopefully back with some stories for this month. I graduated. Tommy graduated too. So you wanna just, you know, what are your feelings?

01:12
Tommy Godwin
Like, I guess I can introduce myself.

01:17
Veronika Becher
Okay, sorry, this is not the order. Go ahead.

01:22
Tommy Godwin
Yeah, I'm Tommy. I just graduated from NC State. I'm originally from Wilmington, North Carolina and I double majored in agroecology and international studies and I minored in soil science.

01:37
Veronika Becher
I love the ad and I'm this basically really like high achiever up here.

01:43
Tommy Godwin
I'm like, isn't most of the people who listen to this and do they go to NC State? So maybe that'll mean something to them. They'll be like, oh, this is like I've been in school for four years. So like this is how I introduce myself.

01:56
Veronika Becher
No, no, go ahead. I didn't want to cut you off. Go ahead.

02:00
Tommy Godwin
I don't know what el do you add more to your self introduction?

02:04
Veronika Becher
I don't know. Fun fact.

02:05
Tommy Godwin
Fun fact. I had two cats.

02:08
Veronika Becher
Oh, so did you think you was a cat?

02:10
Tommy Godwin
I have two cats. My favorite TV show is Survivor. I grew up, I played piano and still play sometimes. I like to garden. I like, I like plants.

02:29
Veronika Becher
That's a wonderful introduction. So today for everyone who's traveling right now and sits on a random bus trying to cross Europe, I don't know where you are, but I feel like it would be nice add on to your travel experiences. So download this episode. And so I feel like I would like to start with something that is precisely, well, really important I think is graduation. Like how to feel about graduation and just reflecting on four years of college. College and being in your field itself. Like being horticultural science minor myself, I feel like it's Just such a different field from my business degree that I feel like it would be nice to just have a talk about that.

03:12
Tommy Godwin
We're both interdisciplinary, I guess.

03:14
Veronika Becher
Yes, true. With international studies. So you probably relate a lot to people questioning. Oh, you're studying something that is so different.

03:23
Tommy Godwin
Oh, my God. You have like one normal major at least your business.

03:28
Veronika Becher
What do you mean normal? Do you know the amount of people.

03:30
Tommy Godwin
That question why you do business and.

03:33
Veronika Becher
Horticulture that ask why I'm doing business in general? Because I feel like it has so many stereotypes with, like being in business.

03:40
Tommy Godwin
Because you're a woman or.

03:42
Veronika Becher
No. All right. No, it's not thinking about being a woman. More like that people associate. People that just didn't know what to do in college. They decide to go into business to make a lot of money.

03:56
Tommy Godwin
They stereotype.

03:57
Veronika Becher
Yes. And now we have a whole recession coming on and no one can find a job in business. What is kind of hilarious.

04:04
Tommy Godwin
So, yeah.

04:05
Veronika Becher
Yeah. But basically, maybe let's start graduation. Yeah.

04:11
Tommy Godwin
Four years.

04:11
Veronika Becher
How do you feel? How do you feel?

04:14
Tommy Godwin
I don't know. It's so recent, honestly. But my graduation, how I went. It went well. I had two and then the first. Sorry, I'm clicking my pen. Yeah, I had two and the first one, the IDS one was really boring and I felt almost fell asleep. The second one, my crop and soils, because that one was a lot of fun. And you know what's funny about the crop and souls graduation is. It's so different. They give you a microphone. They give you the microphone and they're like, can you introduce your family and give a few words of gratitude and like, what your next steps in life. So for every graduate, they are like, that's my ma, that's my partner. That's my dad. That's my cousin Billy. That's my. My cousin Janice.

05:07
Veronika Becher
If you say how the cold war, like graduation went, we have a cold war fellow.

05:12
Tommy Godwin
You guys do that too? Yeah. Each of you gets a speech in a way.

05:16
Veronika Becher
Not really speech, but more we introduce ourselves like. Like the family in ourselves. And so funny because my parents weren't there, so it was like I'm by myself. And then everyone just paused in. The whole room looked at me and like, well, what should I tell you? Like, my parents weren't at my graduation, by the way, if anyone is relating to that, I'm sorry to tell you, but I hope you had some great friends that came because I had some great friends that were there and I think that just made my day.

05:43
Tommy Godwin
People need that support. It felt good. Like, I gave. Like, when I went to mine, like, I was like, I didn't want to cry, but then I was like, Dr. Patterson, you believed in me. I, like, started choking up. And then I was like, I really started choking up, like, talking about my mom. I'm like, my mom. My mom's here. She's my inspiration. I love my mom. And then I almost started crying, and, like, it was like. And people liked it. I guess people were like, good speech.

06:18
Veronika Becher
But isn't it always the case if you know that you're, like, sad or you're, like, emotional about it, that you actually had great four years? Like, it was a hard time, but at the same time, you've gained something you can call like, a second home or something. People that you're grateful for. Actually, I couldn't cry. Oh, my gosh.

06:37
Tommy Godwin
No.

06:37
Veronika Becher
It's so bad because I got emotional three days before graduation, and I was like, I should not cry yet. It's too early. I'm not there yet, and I cannot cry. Like, it's. And so I'm there, like, okay, don't cry. Don't cry. So I pushed through the whole, like, cardboard ceremony and everything till I got to my actual graduation. And then I'm like, where are my tears? They're non existent. I'm like, this is kind of bad. That means I'm repressing my emotions completely. And I got a card from one of my best friends, Ari, and for some reason, a postcard arrived one day after graduation. And I read it, and she, like, she wrote me a postcard, like, graduate, congratulations, and, like, I hope you have enough energy for the semester. And I'm like, I just choked up.

07:19
Veronika Becher
I'm like, I'm crying, like, in my room, super upset and at the same time, super happy for what I've had.

07:26
Tommy Godwin
Yeah, I think it's like, people, like, go, like, process things differently or in this experience, it means different things to people. Like, what was college like for you? And, like, what you value. And you seem like you value people a lot in your relationships, so. And it was the same for me. Like, I don't. Like, I don't really care about graduating or, like, I just realized, like, oh, I've, like, getting a. Graduating and getting a job, it's like, oh, I've had a job for the past three years. Like, I've been working, like, while at school. So it's not like it's. My life is so completely different. I mean, it will be like, school is, like, completely different than real life. But I didn't really care. Like, I'm done with school. Honestly, I'm so burnt out. And I'm, like, done with school, right.

08:10
Tommy Godwin
For right now. I might go back, but I just, like, am so burnt out. And then. So when I graduated or, like, when I was about to graduate, I'm like, I'm out of here. Screw this. Like. Or I was so happy to go, but at the end, like, at the graduation, when you get to see your family or people who are proud of you and your professors, and then you, like, reflect on, like, oh, I'm actually very grateful for this experience. And then that's when, like, it's emotional, like, because it's like, oh, yeah, my mom, like, especially my mom. It's like, she just works so hard for me. And, like, I wanted to set. Tell her something. Like, it's hard for me to be, like, really open with my mom. Like, some people are so open with their parents.

08:51
Tommy Godwin
It's like, to me, it's just crazy. Like, people just, like, are always talking to their parents, like, telling what's going on. Like, that was never, like, me and my parents. So for me, like, trying to be honest, it was more. It's more. It's easier to be, like, honest in that situation. Just, like, telling someone, I'm, like, grateful for it. And. Yeah, so it felt good.

09:11
Veronika Becher
I'm like, the opposite. I'm really close with my mom. She knows, like, too much about my life, in a way, excluding a couple of things where I feel like she'll be too worried about me, you know, like, certain things, you know, you just don't want to worry your parents. But we're good. We're good. No, she knows a lot. It was more like, I told my parents, I realized they're not going to be there. And I wasn't aware how much it meant for me that your parents arrived to your graduation. And I was like, well, I'll have a different one in Germany. But for some reason, I passed. And I was like, man, I really want them to be here.

09:48
Veronika Becher
Because when all the parents arrived for all German students, and I was the only one without parents, and they were spending a whole week with their parents, going to restaurants and talking and meeting up together. And they were like, in this little bus. And I was just excluded because my parents weren't there, this is how I felt like. And I was like, man, I took my last exam on Thursday, and graduation was a Saturday. It was just like a blink of an eye. Super fast getting through everything. And I was just like. I called my parents. I'm like, man, I really miss you guys. I hope. Like, I wish you would be here, but I know that my parents couldn't fly due to my mom. And, like, it just. I don't know, it was. My dad got so upset.

10:33
Veronika Becher
He was, like, running around in the kitchen and was like, oh, my gosh, we're gonna come to her. Like, German graduation, for sure. Like, we can't miss it. And they were watching the recording my mom started and was like, after midnight, two o' clock in the morning, and they were watching my recording. So they can, like, see me walk across the stage. It was the opposite for the business school. Super dry and depressing at first. No.

10:59
Tommy Godwin
You went to the commencement?

11:00
Veronika Becher
Yes.

11:01
Tommy Godwin
I didn't go to the commencement.

11:01
Veronika Becher
It was super. So the business school was just. We had 800 students. They actually separated the master students from us. We didn't even. It was just undergrad.

11:14
Tommy Godwin
Oh, yeah. They had a separate graduation.

11:15
Veronika Becher
Yes. And so we walked the stage and it was like the student speaker came up, he talked, and. And then it was the most efficiency driven graduation you would ever go through, where it was like, now we got to start with the diploma. Please don't clap. And this is what made everyone upset. We were not supposed to clap for anyone until everyone was done. And I was like, man, I get it. But also, no. So wait a minute.

11:42
Tommy Godwin
So you're just like, silently calling people up? Like, it's so boring.

11:46
Veronika Becher
Think of a movie where you only hear the steps and people walking. This like, can you imagine that? We were in Reynolds Coliseum. So the whole Coliseum full of people, they were booked out. Every seat was filled with people. And were like, the whole. Everyone is quiet, and you only hear people's names and people walking across the stage. I'm like, man, this is bad. So someone decided to bring a drum inside the graduation ceremony. And they were drumming the whole time, and there were some guys dancing on the stage. It was super funny. I don't know. And so people started breaking rules. And one of my friends was, like, standing in the back. I was, like, really emotional about the fact that he arrived, actually, because he knew he was super busy that day.

12:32
Veronika Becher
He was like, I'm still gonna arrive to your graduation because I know your parents aren't there.

12:36
Tommy Godwin
Oh, what a sweetie.

12:37
Veronika Becher
And he shouted across the whole. No, he did. So in the video where I'm walking across the stage, you could hear him shout. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is like, this made me so happy. Like, I don't know, really random gadation moments.

12:57
Tommy Godwin
But no, that's beautiful.

12:59
Veronika Becher
Fantastic. Garation. Maybe. Last comment. I feel like I talked too much, but. Something that stuck with me was a student speaker that said one thing that I liked. I don't. I'm conflicted about the speech itself, but I liked one thing that he said, and it's. We are all ordinary people, but we do extraordinary things every single day. And something stuck with me. And I was like, so true. Because we are all just graduating. We're just going through life. But I hope we all do something that will leave an impact.

13:35
Tommy Godwin
Oh, yeah. Does that motivate you? Like, you're. You want to make an impact on the world or something?

13:40
Veronika Becher
I realized a 9 to 5 job would not be enough for me to be happy. I'm even kind of scared what's gonna come next, because it feels really linear. Like, it feels like I've just gained a milestone and now I'm continuing just building up milestone after milestone. So it's like, oh, getting married, finding a partner, buying a house, having a dog, children. You're done.

14:05
Tommy Godwin
Yeah.

14:05
Veronika Becher
This is how it feels like.

14:06
Tommy Godwin
Life can feel like that, I think, too, for me or for a lot of people. It's like you're going through. You're like, after your, you know, expectations of you, like, what. What happens after college, Stuff like that. Gotta get a job. Gotta settle down.

14:24
Veronika Becher
You want a fun fact, like, about my graduation? My advisor for the IBDD program that I'm in, like, international business, was joking. He was like, oh, he was actually serious about it, but he just said it in a way where it was funny. And he's like, well, you better. He talked to all the Germans, and we have five people. He's like, you better invite me to your wedding. And. And then everyone turns in the same second. Yes. Yes. Oh, my gosh. And they were like, well, Veronika's gonna be the first to get married. And then my advice was like, yeah. She looked at all of us and was like, yeah, I agree.

15:01
Tommy Godwin
Wait, wait.

15:04
Veronika Becher
So I don't know why I'm getting married first. Because speaking of linear paths.

15:07
Tommy Godwin
Wait, you're not, like, engaged or something?

15:09
Veronika Becher
No, I don't even have a boyfriend right now. So.

15:15
Tommy Godwin
You don't have a secret Beyonce?

15:17
Veronika Becher
No, I don't. So it's kind of funny how everyone looked at each other because we are all single.

15:21
Tommy Godwin
Oh, they're. You're all single? Five single Germans.

15:25
Veronika Becher
Yeah. This is kind of not a good thing for the U.S. but yeah, it's.

15:28
Tommy Godwin
Like a dating show plot.

15:29
Veronika Becher
It is kind of five single Germans. Actually, this is what happened two years. My past two years were literally just a dating show of me just going through, okay ups and downs and watching my roommates getting entangled with too many stories and too many situationships where I would hear from other people in my university that he's right now dating this random girl. Not dating. And I'm like, man, I know more about your love life than I want to.

15:58
Tommy Godwin
That college drama, this young people drama.

16:02
Veronika Becher
It'S just so funny. I don't know. And that was really funny. And yeah, we're like so off topic.

16:08
Tommy Godwin
What are we talking about? No graduation feelings.

16:12
Veronika Becher
But maybe let's just go back to this actual. So looking back on the four years, would you say the experience was good? Like, what is something that stuck with you like about college life suck with me?

16:27
Tommy Godwin
You know, it's funny. I like did interviews for. I'm in a group where I was called the Thomas Jefferson Scholars. And we did like freshman interviews and I like talk to all these like incoming freshmen and we did like interviews and we're like trying to get to know their interests and stuff. And a part of me, it was like kind of sad or like, because there's. These were like such great kids. Like, they're amazing kids. Like they're doing. There's These people are like, I don't know how they do all this stuff. They're like, yeah, I'm in the. I'm the president of FFA and I'm like, I volunteer on the side and I work in a bakery part time. And I'm like, geez, how do these people do this? Like, how do they live like this? And then.

17:06
Tommy Godwin
But when I talk to them, like they're just so passionate about life and they're just so happy. And a part of that was like, there's like a little sad tinge there because I feel like I just burn out so much and I'm like a little afraid for them or like I don't want them to lose that. But another thing happened. It was like one person I was interviewing with was a professor and she was like, she asked me that same question, like, what? I enjoyed college. Like, did I enjoy. No, she asked me like, did I enjoy college? Like, did I enjoy going to state? Do I regret it? And for me I was like, I can't. There was no like answer of like, did I enjoy college? Would I rather went somewhere else? Because like college has just been so Unbelievable.

17:53
Tommy Godwin
Like in terms of how it's changed me or like the experiences I've had, the people I've met. It's like not even like I can't imagine another school. I love wolf pack. I love Angie State.

18:07
Veronika Becher
Go back. Yeah.

18:10
Tommy Godwin
I don't know. I'm not even a huge wolf pack. I mean, whatever. I mean, is that sacrilegious to say? But I, I'm not like a huge school spirit person. I never like took a lot of identity in being a college student or going to school. And like, I try to look at stuff outside school, but it's still, it's just, I can't even imagine anything. Like what one takeaway. It's like my, the person I was before I came is like, I feel like I've matured. Like, it's like that was a young stupid kid and now I'm like a.

18:45
Veronika Becher
Young stupid adult who just looking into the mirror and gets older and older, but mentally it stays the same.

18:54
Tommy Godwin
No, but I mean, I think I'm mature. I know myself more like I know what I've been, what I've done, but. Or like who I am a little more. I don't know. Is it the same for you? Did you think that? Or were you already fully formed when you came here? You're like, you were already like so cool.

19:11
Veronika Becher
It's funny something I've learned. So I really like to. I want to improve and grow as a person, but sometimes I force myself to grow as a person and when I do that, I'm like get super frustrated. I'm like, I feel like I'm in a stagnant position where nothing happens in my life and I'm not becoming a better version of myself. But I feel like the growth happened when I didn't think about the growth. Does that make sense? And that's why just out of nowhere it happened. I'm like, whoa, I've grown so much. So I feel like for me, since I started in Germany, well, I graduated high school and I moved completely away from my hometown. Like it was the first big move. Well, not really big move. I lived abroad in the US actually, but big move in Germany.

19:58
Veronika Becher
So I was like by myself first own, like indirectly apartment, shared apartment. And I went crazy. I was like, for the first time I had a social circle. I found people that I could connect with. College was for me like finding like minded people that care about what they do more than when I was in high school. I feel like my high school, like, I don't know, acquaintances, people Just did not care. But they did not care about school. They did not care about learning things. And I. The opposite for me was like, I enjoy learning things. I enjoyed college for that part. I don't like exams, but I don't think people do in general. But I do enjoy actually going to classes and the flexibility of meeting so many diverse people, that just would inspire me. And so I went crazy.

20:45
Veronika Becher
Like, I don't know if I've ever told anyone here on this podcast, but I lost my voice the first month that I joined college because I talked so much that I just. I don't know. Apparently I went to the doctor and he was like, well, I think you talk too much. And I would sit for three months, I couldn't regain my voice. So in the mornings and the evenings, I would lose completely my voice. And then during the day, I was able to talk, but I would sit with a cup of tea in every single apartment of my building, every single night a different apartment, and talk to new people. And I went crazy. Like, I've got to know almost everyone in my building, my grade, my semester. Like, I. I don't know how, but I just.

21:29
Veronika Becher
I was out there like the social butterfly. And I was in a relationship for two years, or like almost two and a half years. I got into a relationship in coach, went crazy. Was a beautiful time. Not the relationship.

21:44
Tommy Godwin
Good times.

21:46
Veronika Becher
Good times. Yeah. But also. And then I see the double, like, the other side of the coin. It was pretty difficult for me because I realized I was struggling so much with my degree. I entered as the only student. No, well, not only student. I was in the minority of students that had no background in business and their parents didn't own a company, were CEOs or had any sorts of management position high up in the company. So when I entered college, I was. I had no expertise or knowledge about business at all. I never took any business classes or anything in that direction in high school. And my parents were both in stem and I was struggling so hard to fit in because I just couldn't find my niche.

22:33
Veronika Becher
And the classes I had to take in the beginning were just not my thing at all. So the amount of times that I would, like, study so hard, I wouldn't get the grades I wanted. I was so frustrated. It would burn me out so much. And I was just struggling so much of fitting in as a woman in business, being acknowledged by other. Other students that were with me. Like, a lot of guys were actually not respectful towards you as a woman. In Germany, they, like, they would not talk to you in group works because they thought you wouldn't know what you were talking about. They would, like, ignore you, like you're just existing in the group, and then downgrade you later after the project was done.

23:15
Tommy Godwin
Downgrade you?

23:16
Veronika Becher
Yeah, we would.

23:16
Tommy Godwin
Oh, you like, evaluate each other?

23:18
Veronika Becher
Yes.

23:19
Tommy Godwin
Wow.

23:19
Veronika Becher
And so it was just a bad thing. And I would get so many comments from my professors in Germany where it's like, why didn't you ask your parents to grade your paper? Or why didn't you ask your parents to help you write it in university? Exactly. And I'm like. I'm like, why would I ask my parents? First of all, my parents, both. They are actually not first generation. Like, they are first generation students, but they are not Germans. Like, my dad is German, but he grew up most of his life in Russia, so their German isn't perfect either. They both didn't go to business school. I have no connections in business school. And it was just such a struggle. I feel like this is such a long answer. But then I switched here, and I was so scared of being here.

24:04
Veronika Becher
Like, I had the highest anxiety peak in my whole life because my mom just got diagnosed with cancer, and I was just like. She had the surgery a month before I was flying out, and I haven't. I couldn't even see her. I didn't see her. I was actually on the call, like, calling her on the phone, and I was just, like, so worried what's gonna happen to her? That it just break. Like, it broke my heart and then the relationship and everything. And I was just terrified being here. And I was debating for such a long time of if I should move. And the only thing I had was that was holding me here was, okay, I will give it a month, and if I hate it, I will move back and I stick. Two years.

24:49
Tommy Godwin
Yeah, two years. So it's like. It's pretty good. It's okay.

24:55
Veronika Becher
It was difficult. Really difficult.

24:57
Tommy Godwin
You stayed. So you like the U.S.

25:02
Veronika Becher
Well, I'm getting, like, so many questions back. I did. I did. I loved the college experience. I think it was really diverse. I got actually more to do here than, like, I traveled more in Germany, but here I did more in college in general. I got involved in so many clubs. I mean, I had so many courts when I was graduating. I was laughing. I looked.

25:25
Tommy Godwin
Someone told me. I don't remember if someone told me they saw you or something and that you had, like, a ton of cords.

25:32
Veronika Becher
I had. I mean, I don't want to say that out loud. Maybe I Should. But I had 13 chords.

25:37
Tommy Godwin
Oh, wait, I literally saw you that day.

25:39
Veronika Becher
Yeah. Thirteen chords of metal. And actually, I didn't bring, like, you know, the. What's the name?

25:47
Tommy Godwin
The sash.

25:48
Veronika Becher
Sash. I had actually three sashes. I didn't put one on because I was like, okay, we're just. What is the sash for msa, the one that I had, the black one. It's a multicultural student affairs one. And I love it because it's worn, like, it's out of really nice fabric and it's just a really nice, like. Like sash. Like, it feels actually, like, qualitative high quality. But yeah, going back to you, actually.

26:14
Tommy Godwin
Yeah. What was.

26:15
Veronika Becher
How do you.

26:16
Tommy Godwin
How did we get to sashes?

26:17
Veronika Becher
On graduation. graduation.

26:20
Tommy Godwin
Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean. Yeah, it was there. But going, like, what you were saying about, like. Well, first of all. Yeah, your story, it's, like, really interesting. Or that. Or what you said about your mom. That. Yeah, that touches me. Or like, I think about that, too. It's like, I think about my mom, like, all the time. Like, every day I think about my mom. Or like, I don't know, we're different. Because you talk to your mom a lot. I don't talk to my mom that much, but she doesn't. She doesn't want to talk to me. Like, I. Or she wants to talk to me, but she always thinks she's bothering me. Like. Or it's something. If she calls me, she doesn't call me. I am the one who calls my mom. And. But my mom, she worked really hard. Like.

27:03
Tommy Godwin
Or like, that's part of college for me is like realizing, oh, how much my parents did for me or sacrifice for me. So, yeah, I was thinking about my mom a lot. But going back to, like, what you were saying about business and doing and going a field that you didn't have a background in, like, so I studied agriculture. I studied agroecology. And it's funny, like, your business school with 8,800 people. Like, we had like 40 people. That's why we get the microphone and we can introduce our whole family. Like, the. Not a lot of people do agriculture. And I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I. I struggled or like, that I relate to that struggle a little bit or what you're talking about. But, you know, like, I don't know in what way. In what way?

27:55
Tommy Godwin
Just it's hard to be in something like, you know, the thing about ag is, like, a lot of people are from farming families or are. Yeah. Farming families or they're from a farm, at least. And so that, like, I felt like I'm, like, way behind. And it's. It's. It's interesting. Like, you know, what. What attracted to me. Me to it maybe is like, initially I just felt like agriculture, like, I. You know, I came out of the pandemic, and I wanted to do something that was, like, meaningful in my life, and I wanted to, like, help people. And I felt like, you know, agriculture, like, this is one of the most important industries, and I can help people here.

28:40
Tommy Godwin
And a lot of people are like, that in agriculture has some of the most amazing people because, like, people really care about helping one another. And that was a struggle for me was the, like, not feeling like I belonged. And that's, like, something that was, like, part of my development as, like, human through college is, like, getting. Getting over that a little, or. It's not like, I'm not ever fully over it, but it's, like, based on how I grew up and who I was. It's like the same problem in a different environment. Because, like, when I grew up, my mom, she's from South Korea, and she's from, like, a very rural. She was from a very rural area. She grew up, like, in a really poor village, and it was like a kind of a rural community. And my dad's from Wilmington, North Carolina.

29:32
Tommy Godwin
Like, so I'm a. And his dad is from Bergah. He was from a farm family. But, like, so I had. But I grew up in Wilmington. I was born there. And, like, I grew up in this, like, Korean church community. And they were. It was like, I grew up a lot around a lot of Koreans, but I was the only. One of the only mixed kids. Like, me and my two sister. I had two older sisters. And, like, I. I just remember, like, feeling, like, very different from people. I was also, like, a crazy child.

30:06
Veronika Becher
Like, what did you do?

30:08
Tommy Godwin
I was like this. I, like, bit people. And I was. I was. I was wild. I was one of those weird kids who bit people and, like, ran around on all fours. And I thought I was really into Avatar, the last air dragon. I love Avatar. Okay? I was like. My sisters still to this day are like, call me the Avatar sometimes, like, to joke. I thought I was the Avatar a little bit, or I was pretending at least, but I would, like, bite people and stuff. And then I went to. When I went to school in Wilmington doesn't have that many Asian people. And especially when I was a kid, like, there was only three Asian kids in my whole grade. And I Remember them? And so.

30:53
Tommy Godwin
And it was like, when you're at school, like, growing up in North Carolina or like Wilmington, as an Asian person, it's like, you are like, so, like, what the heck are you. Like, holy crap. Like, where are you from? Like, what do you do? Like, they think you're so interesting. You're like. You're like some kind of alien. Zoo animal. Yeah. Alien or zoo animal. Sounds so bad. Yeah. But, yeah, people are just very curious about you. And a lot of that was innocent. And a lot of that was like, I don't know, deeply hurtful and. Or like feeling excluded or like people calling you names or people like making faces at you or like pulling their eyes apart and stuff. And it was. It's like such a weird experience. And if I tell my Korean relatives like this in Korea, they don't understand it.

31:49
Tommy Godwin
They're like, what? Like, you're American? To. To a Korean. If I'm in Korea, like, I'm so freaking American. They're like, this. This American country flag. I don't know what. What is it? Gun toting.

32:04
Veronika Becher
Oh, my God.

32:05
Tommy Godwin
Beer drinking American is like. They think it's strange because their idea of, like, maybe race and ethnicity are different. But for me, I can never, like, escape that. I felt like there was always so much attention on me all the time. And I think, like, I made me like, very much like a. More of a loner. And I didn't, like, I didn't feel like I needed people. I like, was alone all the time. This is kind of depressing, but yeah. And that. So that, like, came back to me. Or, you know, honestly, I think, like, trying to work on yourself.

32:46
Tommy Godwin
I tried to make an effort to work on myself a lot when I came to college because I realized that, oh, I have a lot of issues, but that the, you know, the really sad thing about experiencing discrimination from a young age and especially racial discrimination is like, you start to. It really molds how you view people and view life. You start to, like or not start. You recognize negative behavior in people or you're more sensitive to it and you think like, oh, this person is discriminating against me. There's like, moments like that where you're like, oh, is this person discriminating against me or. Or am I imagining it? And I had experiences in college, even like in clubs or something. Especially like ag clubs because there is no Asians in agriculture. Here are. I should say they're mostly like grad students.

33:48
Tommy Godwin
North Carolina State's grad school program in crop and souls Is really diverse. Like people from all the world come here. But when it's undergrads for crop and souls, like people studying like agronomy and soil science and natural resources, it's like over. It's like overwhelmingly white majority and a lot of people from North Carolina, like not a lot of diverse background. And I think that is a little bit of why or I just felt out of place. And a lot of it is like I feel out of place a lot or I rec. I started to recognize that about myself. Like, oh, like I make. I'm like, is this in my head like realizing how much do I need to like try not to judge what other people are saying or like not take it a certain way?

34:42
Tommy Godwin
Because like that's what happens when like you have all this, you build all this wall around you. Is that you? You? Like, sometimes you're. I feel like I'm making my own misery. Like I'm making my. Myself miserable. And you know something like I had a real like coming turns with this when I, you know, I was starting to think about like what I want to do. And like I am actually I'm really passionate about agriculture and farming. Like I, like I was into it or I'm still into it. I love it so much. So when I went to, I started like considering like what is how can I use this.

35:30
Tommy Godwin
Like I want to use agriculture and I wanted to help farmers and I wanted to potentially farm myself because I saw the value in that in like helping the environment or like helping feed people. I see like a real calling for that. And I went to a Carolina farm stewardship association. They have a sustainable agriculture conference. And it was like an eye opening experience because I was in this period where I was like pretty burnt out. And also like weighing these experiences in my head of like when I was like in a club or something and I feel like I'm the only one excluded from or like, I don't know, I'm sitting with this me, I'm sitting with some people. And then like this older people, they'll like invite the people next to me to like eat with them, but they wouldn't.

36:20
Tommy Godwin
They would just leave me. And that was a kind of experience. Like I'm thinking like, am I imagining this? Is this real? And then like just something like that and also like just all the like trauma I have from being treated like that made me like think, oh, do I belong here? Do I need, do I need this? Like, should I be doing this? Am I doing this thing because there's also the aspect of I'm not from agriculture, I'm not farming. My mom teaches nursing and my dad was a writer. And so there's that feeling that people in ag, like, they're from it. But I met this, like, this farmer. Oh, I started meeting more farmers and like, I went to like, this panel where it was a lot of young people who wanted to farm too.

37:09
Tommy Godwin
And they talked about, like, their struggles in life, like, not want. Not having enough pay and not. Because a lot of thing working in ag is really low pay, like, you know, entry farming work and stuff. And like their dreams, people talking about their hopes and dreams. It, like, really, you know, made me feel like I wasn't alone. Like there are people who. Who aren't from this and people who really love it and have a dream for it. And I met this. This guy, his name was Davon at Sandhill Agricultural. Something. I don't know, but I got lunch with him, like, through some other person I know. And he was like an older black guy. And I told him about this experience or like, what it feel like. I don't know.

37:58
Tommy Godwin
He started talking about race sometimes because in agriculture here, race can be a really touchy subject in a really, like. Because, like, the majority of farmers are overwhelmingly white and the majority of land is overwhelmingly owned by white people. And it can really feel like not that good of environment for, you know, someone who. Isn't that just my experience? And he started bringing up. So I told him this story, like, how I felt like I didn't belong. And then he told me, like, he told me this like, awesome inspirational thing about, like, how he was a Marine and he had narcolepsy and he just lived on his friend's couch and he had no. He didn't have a place of his own and he really wanted to do agriculture. So he would just like, go to farms, like, all the time.

38:54
Tommy Godwin
And he'd be like, asking them if he could help them or, like, if he could see what they did. And he gave me this advice and like, I really remember it. Like, I think about it a lot. And he's just like, you shouldn't. Just don't care. So you care too much about what people think and that, like, if you have a dream, you need to, like, fight for your dream and the money will come. If you are, like, worried about money a lot or like, that you can achieve something as long as it's like what you want and you love doing that and you work hard to do it. Like you can achieve that and you need to like get over, like screw other people, like screw all these people. It's. It's about you and that's it.

39:37
Tommy Godwin
That stuck with me a lot and it sticks with me a lot to this day. And I think that was a moment where I started to really realize like, oh, my problems. I like this pity. I have this pity party for myself. I really. That's like the nature of the disease a little or like of your own getting caught up in your own ego and thinking so much about yourself. It really makes your own unhappiness. I found that and I need to, you know, some people really are really struggling and some people go through really terrible things and just like owning up to myself and you know, getting out of my own way. I really believe that, you know, my biggest struggle has just been battling myself really. It's like I feel like I'm create.

40:33
Tommy Godwin
I created all this conflict in my mind and that idea is like how much of it, you know, is real or not.

40:42
Veronika Becher
It reminds me so much of one of my professors in college when I just started freshman year. And he had this tendency, he would call me out of the whole lecture hall. I don't know why me specifically. And the thing is, sometimes I would tell him, well, I really didn't get to finish the homework. I just really didn't have the time. And I'll be superfront and honest with him and he's like, I don't care. You're still gon come here. Like. So I would walk up to the front and he would like force me to calculate things. So do stats and like wait in.

41:15
Tommy Godwin
Front of the class like you're on the board.

41:17
Veronika Becher
Yes. And explain like it's. He was teaching microeconomics and macroeconomics, so. So I would do microeconomics in front of the whole class because he would like force me indirectly to stand in front of the whole class and calculate things. And the funny thing was I would say things like, oh, I'm not really sure if what I'm doing is right or like I'm not like I think that's right. Like phrases like that. And he looked at me in front of the whole lecture hall and lectured me, like literally. And I hated it because what he said was like, Veronika, you should not be so. You should not say phrases like that because you look like a non confident person. So you're so self conscious that you say, I don't know if that's right. And men don't like women that Are not confident? Yes.

42:07
Veronika Becher
In front of the whole class. And he's like, you are in business. You should be confident even if you don't know the answer. For the longest time I actually hated that he did that. Because you called me out in front of the whole like semester and it's like 100 something people or even more sitting in this lecture hall and he's like telling me how I should be more confident in myself because men don't like women that are not confident. And looking back now, I know that I hated it. But there's something true about what he said that I realized. It's called fake it till you make it. But I wouldn't actually take it the way he did. It was just, I think, not the right way that you shouldn't do this, I think in front of a whole class.

42:48
Veronika Becher
But I think the idea is even if you think you're completely wrong with your calculations, pretend like you know exactly what you're doing. Because this mindset brought me through business school. Like the amount of, like the amount of times that I realized the person next to me that pretends to know it all doesn't know even one thing. And it looks like they do. It's just tremendous. Like I realize I need to be confident in my skills and I need to. Even if I think I'm wrong, there's a high possibility that a lot of times when I would say that and I'll be so like, I don't know if I'm confident in my business skills. I don't know if I'm a good businesswoman.

43:27
Veronika Becher
And I also never would call myself just a businesswoman because I feel like I just have so many other interests that it would make me really one dimensional person saying, I'm just a business person. I like art, I like philosophy, I still like psychology. I read books, I do so many other things. I have a minor in horticulture. Science has nothing to business. Because I was like, I want to be a diverse person. I realized I tried so hard to fit into business. Like you said, you didn't know how to fit in as you like with your identity into agriculture. For me, it was like once I reached that point, I realized I don't have to fit in. I don't have to be the typical business person either. Because I realize how much I understand people better by being in other fields.

44:13
Veronika Becher
Because I am doing what they are doing. I am the one who's painting with the painters and producing the paint later for them because I know what they want. I Actually understand what people want because I am in these communities myself, because I expose myself to that. And it creates an image that you don't just think one sided of. Oh, we're just talking about profit, we're talking about money, we're talking about being successful. But also what are the people and what do they need? What do they actually want? Who are these people that are going to buy my products? How can I make their life better? Because I understand them better. And it's. I think that realization of being confident in my skills and realizing that not everyone in the room even knows what they are doing helped me a lot.

45:03
Tommy Godwin
Yeah, that's interesting the of like being confident in your calculations even if they're wrong. Because I, that that's like a business mentality maybe. But.

45:20
Veronika Becher
Of course you fix it. Like, I'm not saying like, oh, just.

45:22
Tommy Godwin
Be like right, just be wrong.

45:24
Veronika Becher
No, but the amount of times you're like, I don't know. I was literally working as an intern and the guy miscalculated our revenue streamlines. But then he asked me to recalculate it. And the worst part was he was allowed to see these files, but I wasn't allowed to see them because they said that I'm not qualified enough. And were on the same stage, but he was a guy and I was a woman. And they were like, we cannot trust her. I don't think she can do it. And then I realized he miscalculated everything. And I'm like, how did you get through? Like, how did you graduate? How did you? Like, how can our world. Like, sometimes I'm terrified. I'm looking at so many people are graduating from like engineering degrees and I'm like, how will a bridge be fine?

46:06
Veronika Becher
Like, how can I walk on this bridge when I know you cannot calculate even like 1 plus 5? Like, like sometimes it terrifies me. But the business students do the same thing. So I was like, you know what? I think it's about confidence. It's about you embrace the way you would like to be and you fight for what you want to do. And it took me four years to realize that I can be good in business, that I can actually do things that I understand what I'm doing because. And I took a strategy course this semester. It's a capstone course. And so many students, what I did not expect, it was completely opposite experience of my high school degree.

46:48
Veronika Becher
Walked up to me during graduation and said that they were so grateful for the Fact that I was participating and working in the class because they were like, no, because for the longest time I was so scared of being the nerdier like person. Like I, I sometimes hated it because it would be like I love it so much. But then I create an image and people see me as one sided. Like, I only like school, like I have nothing else to like offer as a friend. And it would tremendously like scatter.

47:21
Tommy Godwin
Just.

47:21
Veronika Becher
Me personally because I'm like, well, I'm more than just school, right? You can't just observe me in school and be like, oh, she's only studying. I'm also going out. I also do other things. Not this semester, but I also do things outside of studying. Like I said, this semester doesn't count.

47:37
Tommy Godwin
She's a deep, complex person with her complex motivations.

47:43
Veronika Becher
Yes. Yes. How dare you? How dare you. But this class made me realize for the first time, hey, I actually can be someone on par with all the other guys in my class. Like, I can be someone who.

47:55
Tommy Godwin
Which class?

47:56
Veronika Becher
The strategy class that I took.

47:57
Tommy Godwin
Okay.

47:59
Veronika Becher
The funniest thing is the one guy was standing in line with me to walk inside the graduation like hall and he looked at me and he was like, do you know that all the groups in our group was preparing? We had to present our presentations in front of the whole class. He's like, were preparing for your questions because we knew you would be the person asking us. So we need to be prepared for any question you might possibly ask. So people fairly were scared. Like I was the latter. Like, if they can answer my questions, they're fine.

48:31
Tommy Godwin
This is why professors call on you, by the way, because you're, you're like outspoken in class. Right?

48:39
Veronika Becher
I think it's something that is, has to do with German education systems. In Germany you get graded. 50% of your grade is participation. If you don't raise your hand enough once, it's not enough and you don't contribute. You want. And I'm also, I fall asleep if I don't do anything. Like, I, I'm so impatient too. That means after like waiting a minute and no one answers. I know the answer. I'm like, man, that's so easy. Like you can just say it. Yeah, just say it. So true. And so I'm like, I, I became a person that would just talk.

49:11
Veronika Becher
And the funny thing is I was sitting in the back, Like I decided to sit down in the furthest back of the whole classroom only to realize that I was stupid because I'm like raising my Hand I have to shout across the whole room. And apparently we had a final exam and she, I didn't come in right on time because she said there's a window between 12 and 2 that we can come in. So I just came like an hour later. But everyone arrived on time. So the professor was like, it's somehow quiet in this room. Where's Veronika? It's on the whole thing, I don't know. I think 10 people talked to me afterwards and they were like, where were you? We were all looking for you.

49:49
Veronika Becher
And like, man, this is such an, like leaving such a weird impact on people that they remember me because I was not there for the exam.

49:58
Tommy Godwin
And.

49:59
Veronika Becher
I was quiet and like. And the professor was just something like he would be like, thank you Veronika for being in the classroom. Like she's carrying this whole class. Like if she wouldn't be here. I was sick one day.

50:12
Tommy Godwin
No flex, just carrying the class. No. You know.

50:15
Veronika Becher
But then I also know how much I realize it's about confidence and going back to this topic. So many people in that classroom I think are really smart. I actually never even once when I was sitting there thought, oh, I'm the best. Like I'm better than everyone else here. What I was thinking is people are sometimes scared to raise their hand. They are confident in the answers or they question what they actually want to say. But I'm like, you need to be confident in your abilities sometimes to succeed in certain fields and just try, even if it means to fail.

50:52
Veronika Becher
And the fact that so many people are just probably thinking the same thing that I was saying but just not voicing it because they're really self conscious about, oh, what's going to happen, what is if I'm wrong, maybe sometimes realize, hey, there are some really smart folks up there and give them a little bit more confidence, a push and they will be the same like top student.

51:15
Tommy Godwin
Okay, but like those kids, like some of them are good students, right? Or my experience is like a lot of, yeah, a lot of students just don't like talking in class and they will like avoid it. But doesn't mean like I was more like you. I was very active in class and like, I don't know, like when I came to school, you know, I was very motivated in the beginning because in high school I didn't try. I was not a good student. When I was younger even like I just, I didn't do any work. So like after school my teacher would make me stay to do work and. But when I came to College in high school, I feel like I didn't live up my potential and I wanted to make my mom proud.

52:04
Tommy Godwin
Or like I realized like, oh, I need to step it up. Or like I didn't want to waste my school time. Like I was like, oh, I'm gonna talk after every class and I'm gonna like raise my hand all the time. And it was really difficult for me to do that. Cause I'm not like you. I don't have confidence.

52:18
Veronika Becher
Oh my gosh.

52:19
Tommy Godwin
I don't have confidence. And I'm not. I mean I'm loud obviously, but I'm like a more introverted guy. Like, turns out.

52:30
Veronika Becher
Four years of college do that to you. I'm actually intro.

52:33
Tommy Godwin
Yeah, well, I don't like to answer questions and whatever, but I did do that for a while. And professors, they end up doing stuff like that or something like that. I had a class where the professor, after I left the class, I saw a girl in the class and she was like, oh, you're the guy he always calls on. And I was like, oh, what? That's how you know me. But, but what was interesting in ag is that as an agroecology major they're like, people are into like, there's like people that are into organic agriculture and then people who are like more conventional and they also, because they're from farming families, they might think that like you're a judgmental person or something if you are a proponent of it. And sorry, I'm like, but like I said.

53:26
Tommy Godwin
But what happened was that my professor, I had a professor who's pretty like anti organic agriculture. So he would like comment on things all the time and everybody oh, this stuff is not sustainable. That's how he talks. I'm not like making fun of him. But yeah, he was a great guy and we had great conversations. But he would always call on me to be the contrary viewpoint because it was a lot of people like he calls on them and they will just agree with what he said because it was like kind of a. He was saying things like political or a little bit like the class, we talked a lot about like genetically modified foods and like how certain practices are good. And there was a, you know, a kind of a criticism of like organic agriculture and stuff.

54:19
Tommy Godwin
And I found it really like one sided. And I did not come to school to do that, by the way. I am not like, I was never like, I advocate heavily for things but I ended up just, you know, wanting to say something or have a conversation. And so he would Call me a lot for that. And we would talk after every class, too. Like, actually, I talked to him very recently, or he talked to me at graduation, and he complimented me. He said, tommy, you're a deep thinker, and I'm glad I had you in my class. And I was like, oh, cool. Awesome. It was weird. Cause, like, I don't know, I felt like sometimes we would argue or I also do this. I argue with my professors. It was like my bad habit. Like, I just really. I don't know. I just.

55:16
Tommy Godwin
I am annoying.

55:18
Veronika Becher
I do the same thing. It's kind of bad. I mean, some professors get really offended by it.

55:24
Tommy Godwin
Yeah, they.

55:25
Veronika Becher
They, like, hate you. They. They would do everything that they fail after that. No, seriously. I mean, I have a professor like that in my German university is. So. You know how people. Like, I didn't care about the graduation ceremony itself. The only thing I'm caring about is my German graduation because I need to look into someone's faces, like, some faces. And I'm like, I managed to survive four years of college here. And, yeah, I feel like some. Some professors are just. I don't know, I think they need to be open for criticism, but they're really, like, strict on I know exactly what I want. I know exactly what I. Where I'm going. One thing that I struggled with through college, that kind of. Kind of fits into the topic that. I don't know why it came up, but.

56:12
Veronika Becher
But since I added a minor in horticulture science. Right. A lot of people were like, when they accepted that I'm actually a business major, they were like, what are you doing in stem?

56:24
Tommy Godwin
What the heck are you doing with that STEM minor?

56:26
Veronika Becher
No, seriously. Seriously. And the funny thing is, I would listen in lectures, people in horticulture making fun of business students. They would be like, oh, yeah, this class is something that only business students will take because they don't know what they're doing. And I'm just sitting there. I would have the same experience back. Like, why would you take horticulture? That's like, nothing. That's just. What is it? Gardening. And I look at them like, okay, that's more than gardening. Okay. Horticulture is like. There's so many different disciplines that fall under it. And so I feel like maybe you face something similar with agriculture, where people have, like, an image of how, like, act people are. And they make fun of it in a way, too. And so I just.

57:09
Veronika Becher
I got so frustrated that people will tell me in business that I'm not capable of taking Any STEM classes that I'll be bad STEM student because my classes are so easy. Because business is the easiest you can take and a lot of people find it easy. I agree. But also, I think our program wasn't the easiest for me personally. I know a lot of students would say that, but it took me a long time because it was really unnatural at first. It was like something that took me so long to grasp what I'm doing here, since it's not just you learn it by heart and you know the answer, but it's like, how do you apply and like, connect the dots without having, like, the basis? And so I don't know. How do you.

57:54
Veronika Becher
Did you ever encounter people being really, like, judgmental about, oh, you like an ACT student or did your parents ever comment on your choice of major?

58:03
Tommy Godwin
Oh, yeah, my parents. Yeah, my parents were like, what the heck?

58:10
Veronika Becher
What are you doing, Asian guy? That is not going into medicine type of thing. Is that the stereotype?

58:16
Tommy Godwin
No, it was nothing like that. My parents are not like that.

58:19
Veronika Becher
That's good.

58:20
Tommy Godwin
Well, my dad is white, but my mom. My mom is super religious and my mom actually wanted me to be a pastor. And my dad actually. It's like not. It's like reverse area. My white dad had like really high expectations of me especially like. Or he was like, you need to be an astronaut or like concerto violinist. Like, I played violin when I was a kid. I was. I did like stereotypical Asian things, but. And my dad liked. He didn't really understand it. And I don't know, I was kind of like, you know, I was kind of like, just I wanted to do what I wanted to do. Like, that's kind of how I've always been is I, you know, don't always listen to people. And I kind of. But it was hard because I am like.

59:14
Tommy Godwin
Because I feel like there's no one that believes in me a little bit or sometimes it can feel like that you start to doubt yourself. The self doubt really affected my confidence in like, being like, oh, do I? Am I as knowledgeable as I am? But I don't know, what was I talking about?

59:36
Veronika Becher
We were talking about how Asian parents. If they like Asian parents. Yeah. If they, if they were supporting you when it comes to agriculture. Yeah.

59:46
Tommy Godwin
Well, my mom is really supportive. My mom, she doesn't care what I do really. I mean, when I was younger, my parents were terrifying, especially my mom. Like, they were really. My mom was pretty strict or like, you know, they would chase me around the house with the ruler.

01:00:06
Veronika Becher
Well, to be honest, I'd lock myself in the bathroom like you were still fighting people. So to be fair. To be fair, it was kind of partially on you.

01:00:14
Tommy Godwin
I don't know, like, partially on me.

01:00:16
Veronika Becher
Okay, well, honestly, you remind me so much of one of my childhood friends.

01:00:19
Tommy Godwin
Okay.

01:00:20
Veronika Becher
Like, when you told me how you were, like, super crazy as a kid. I grew up. And this is a stereotype now. My. My childhood friend, my, like, closest friend was half Japanese. Like, he grew up. His dad is German, his mom was Japanese, and he was, like, the. The smallest kid in school. And I was the tallest girl back then. And were the opposites. And he would do the craziest things ever. Like, he would jump down, like, this whole staircase, like, just because he wanted to and get into stupid fights or do, like, I don't know, stupid things. But I don't know, it just reminds me of. Yeah, Okay.

01:00:59
Tommy Godwin
I don't know if I did that. Maybe I. That. I mean, maybe. Yeah, he sounds similar to me. I was very small as a child as well.

01:01:06
Veronika Becher
I did get into fights.

01:01:07
Tommy Godwin
You got into fights?

01:01:09
Veronika Becher
Yeah. People get always like, what's happening? I'm like, yeah, I got into a fight in elementary school with some fourth graders. I was a first grader.

01:01:17
Tommy Godwin
Yeah.

01:01:17
Veronika Becher
And there were some boys really annoying me.

01:01:19
Tommy Godwin
And you remember all that first grade?

01:01:21
Veronika Becher
Yeah. Can you imagine? This is one of the things. I remember it a while because my mom was really upset with me, but my dad was really proud of me because these guys were super annoying. They were so mean to me. And then one day, I just decided to hit them. So I got into a huge fight. They scratched my face, and I had a blue eye completely, like, swollen. I got home and we had one day. The next day, we took photos for, like, a project. And my mom's like, how the heck should I cover this up? With makeup? Yeah, I got a fight. I was so proud of myself.

01:01:56
Tommy Godwin
Yeah. Well, yeah, honestly, I wish I got into more fights. I mean, I don't know. When I was young, I mean, like, a lot of. We would just fight after fun. Like, I fought my sisters a lot. I fought, like, my friends a lot. But that's pretty cool that you stood up for yourself. When I think about it, I was like, I wish I stood up for myself more in terms, like, not taking stuff, I think what happens? Or, like, I don't know. I was told not to stick up for myself. I was told, like, to. To, you know, sticks and stones. That's, like, very.

01:02:34
Veronika Becher
It's funny because I grew up the opposite. Like my dad was like, bite them. No, that's what my dad would be like. Next time they do that, they should just like kick them. Like, like punch them this there. And then he would like tell me like where to punch. I should say that out loud maybe. But that's like my dad worrying for me. No, I feel like it's funny because looking back on this development, how I like gained so much confidence and I stood up for me instead of for others and I realized, hey, I actually don't care. Things don't like I get into my head so much thinking about, oh, it's so important what people think of me. But sometimes I realize there's so many people that I should not care about their opinion. They like they would.

01:03:14
Veronika Becher
People that don't respect me are not worth my time and worry so much. And funny enough, I thought I was through this development, but it took me four years of college to be my senior year and realized that I still went through certain phases where I did not set boundaries with people. I did not stood up for myself and I did not leave like situationships or things that I should have just not been in for longest time or friendships. Like it takes me so long to leave people behind because I well, value people so much that once I'm like in the situation, I just, I struggle being direct with people in that case and be like, I don't want to be friends with you anymore because you're not a good person for me.

01:03:59
Tommy Godwin
Jeez. I mean, that's hard. That's like. Yeah, I mean like. Yeah, when you. That's. That's difficult thing about adult. I agree, like having to, you know, I didn't have that many friends growing up, so like, I guess I didn't have that problem. But yeah, definitely, like later in life there's people you meet and someone like you're like so extroverted that I can imagine that can be an issue for you.

01:04:31
Veronika Becher
It's so funny. It's so funny. You're like laughing at it. I was the most introverted kid in middle school. I was so it was. It's confidence sometimes confidence. A lot of people are introverted because. Not because they. You know how there's this idea of what an introvert is and it's like you are less social. But that's not what introversion is.

01:04:52
Tommy Godwin
That's true.

01:04:53
Veronika Becher
Yeah, it's how you collect energy. Like how do you get your social battery up? And there's a misconception that if you don't talk much. If you don't raise your hand much, you're an introvert. But a lot of times I think there are a lot of introverts that are introverts because of the circumstances they're in and how they grew up. Because they're scared of setting up for themselves. They had a hard, maybe childhood. They are not confident and scared to say something they shouldn't or their background is not fitting into, like, the norms that they should be in. So I think a lot.

01:05:28
Tommy Godwin
I hope you're not talking about me, by the way.

01:05:30
Veronika Becher
Oh, no, that was not. Oh, my gosh. No, no, no. Oh, my gosh.

01:05:34
Tommy Godwin
This is crazy. This feels targeted. Like, what the heck?

01:05:36
Veronika Becher
This is not. Oh, this is funny. I was not trying to target you at all. It was. No, but that's just. But I think for me, I realized it's the opposite. Like, my social better goes up the more I'm around people.

01:05:49
Tommy Godwin
Yeah.

01:05:50
Veronika Becher
So I'm like, this is why I enjoy company in, like.

01:05:53
Tommy Godwin
And for me, I get freaking drained by it. I'm like, oh, I need a. When I, like, I have. I'm with a lot of people and I go home. Like, okay, I need to be by myself. Need to decompress. But yeah, that's true. I agree. There's, like, misconceptions about. But what that means. It's not like being shy means you're introverted. Like, I don't ever shut up and I'm introverted.

01:06:17
Veronika Becher
I like, yeah. So this is why I'm like, it's not about communication and it's not about how you are as a person. Introversion or extroversion, like, in general, I have a different. Yeah. Podcast. I feel like that I've mentioned that before, but one thing I'm, like, curious maybe, like, as, like, last point that I feel like would be, I think, interesting now that you're done. Like, what's next? Like, how. How many times have exactly.

01:06:46
Tommy Godwin
Don't ask me that stupid question.

01:06:48
Veronika Becher
Yes. Yes, that's exactly what I wanted. No, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. The amount of times people ask you what's next? That stresses you out or you hate it? Like, I don't know. Can you relate on that? Like, I feel like I. I hate people asking me that. It feels like I'm running behind. Like, I need to create a ready plan for the next 10 years and know exactly what I'm doing because everyone wants to know what happens after I graduate. And I'm like, I need to move and get my life together, you know.

01:07:18
Tommy Godwin
What do you know? You know Dr. Patterson, right?

01:07:20
Veronika Becher
Yes. I actually saw him two days on graduation day.

01:07:23
Tommy Godwin
Yeah, well, he says that to me. Or like he'll like he's like Tommy or Dr. Patterson. I don't know. Should I explain? Dr. Patterson or. Dr. Patterson is like this professor in crop and soil science and he's like, he's an ag professor and he's like the most whimsical man, you know, and he's like super whimsical. You just like you're in his class and he's just like class.

01:07:46
Veronika Becher
He's also an older man.

01:07:48
Tommy Godwin
He's very. Yes, he's very elderly. He's been teaching her for like 56 years or something. But he's like class you have the potential. You can save the world and like talks about famines and crap and like his travels, he's. He's like a Hogwarts professor. Like he's so magical, seen so many places.

01:08:06
Veronika Becher
He has a whole fan base. He's one of probably the only professor to have has like huge fan base. And no one has ever mad at him. Like they like just love him.

01:08:15
Tommy Godwin
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think the world of him. But he will, he'll be like, tommy, we need to meet about your interests. And so we would have a meeting and he'll be like, he will ask me. He'll be like, tommy, where do you see yourself in 10 years? Like 10 years from now? Where are you? Are you happy? Are you? He'll be like when you wake up and you go to that job, that special job and you're feeling like excited for the day and you're just so happy to be there because it's where you belong. Where would that be, Tommy? And I'm like, man, I don't know, like 10 years. Actually I do have a 10 year plan, but that, but how can you imagine yourself in 10 years?

01:08:59
Veronika Becher
I have a 10 year plan.

01:09:02
Tommy Godwin
Well, I have a tentative plan. I have a concept of a plan.

01:09:06
Veronika Becher
I like that, I like that. I feel like I have more goals that I want to achieve, but they're like not bound by time. And I know every other efficiency driven person would lecture me now be like, you will never achieve them because they're not Jesus.

01:09:20
Tommy Godwin
Someone say that about you? You will never achieve your dreams.

01:09:24
Veronika Becher
No, it's just more like, you know how you need to be more like thoughtful about it and not say like, in 10 years I would do this sometimes. Yeah, it happens. But I feel like, honestly, I have, like, goals. Like, when I want to travel, I want to get a driver's license.

01:09:40
Tommy Godwin
Oh, yeah.

01:09:41
Veronika Becher
Like, stupid things. My mom is, like, pressuring me. She's like, you better get a driver's license. I'm like, I know. I finally have time and should do it. I'm finally getting there, man. Just four years of college. No drive his license. Crazy. No, But I agree. I feel like this is something that terrifies me, and it terrifies me finding friends after I graduate. Like, it's gonna be. I feel. It feels like it's gonna be so difficult to, like, meet people.

01:10:11
Tommy Godwin
That's true. You. That is true. Like. Like, it's very nice to have this community here, and I know I'm going to miss it, but I don't care right now.

01:10:21
Veronika Becher
Something that stuck with me that I really. I don't know how you feel about it, but at the MSA graduation, there's an MSA Multicultural Student affairs graduation. And so the associate director who I interviewed for my podcast, Gavin Bell, he was actually on stage, and he said something. I want you guys to not worry about the past and dwell on it and think about all the regrets you had and also not live in the future of thinking what's next in trying to plan out the next 10 years type of thing. But rather live also sometimes in the moment of just enjoying the moment that you're graduating right now and not be so caught up in what you could have done and what you have to do. And just this idea is exactly.

01:11:10
Veronika Becher
I think where I'm standing right now, it's realizing I took two seconds longer than everyone else walking the stage during graduation, I decided to dance. I was dancing across stage. I did. I did. It's so funny. I was vibing because I was like, I only graduated.

01:11:27
Tommy Godwin
Were they playing in music?

01:11:29
Veronika Becher
No. It was completely awkward in silence.

01:11:31
Tommy Godwin
It was silent.

01:11:32
Veronika Becher
I told you. I told you.

01:11:33
Tommy Godwin
Were you making your own music in your head?

01:11:35
Veronika Becher
I was like, yay. Yeah, let's go. And it's funny because I knew literally everyone on stage, because. No, it's just the person at the stairs is my advisor for the IBDD program. And then the woman that was reading out loud on names and switching with the other professor, she was my teacher for the last semester. Like, I had a class of her. And then the guy that was also reading names is my bachelor thesis advisor. So. So I was just, like, going through a list of people that I still have to see. And the director, like, the dean of our school, was actually laughing. He Thought it was hilarious that I was, like, taking my time.

01:12:14
Tommy Godwin
Does no one else? Did no one else dance?

01:12:16
Veronika Becher
No. Everyone was. There were two guys, like, with the drums, like, they were just dancing for a second, but I was just vibing. I was not dancing, but vibing because I thought I graduated once in a lifetime. I might as well walk properly.

01:12:28
Tommy Godwin
That actually shocks me that only you danced. Because, like, in my graduation, they were always like. There was, like, people that. I do a little move, and then the whole audience is like, whoa.

01:12:37
Veronika Becher
Do you know what actually happened? I think a lot of people are drunk.

01:12:42
Tommy Godwin
If they were drunk, why weren't they dancing? Like, what?

01:12:44
Veronika Becher
Because I think they were focusing so much of walking.

01:12:47
Tommy Godwin
They're like, I'm gonna fall down.

01:12:48
Veronika Becher
Yes, exactly. The big creation that went to. The guys in front of me. I don't know if I'm allowed to even say that. But no one would track them down. We're taking shots. And the worst. The weirdest part about it is they were praying before taking the shot. So they prayed together. They took the shot. They took the shot. And they were so drunk, they were not able to walk even. So one of the guys, when they were said, okay, throw the cap in the air. He, for some reason, was not able to throw it properly. So what he did, he, by accident threw the cap, like some baseball ball into someone else's face. That was a girl that was sitting three rows in front of him, completely smashed it in her face. And I was like, what does this happen? Like, what could.

01:13:37
Veronika Becher
This is a weird graduation ceremony.

01:13:40
Tommy Godwin
Our graduation ceremony was like. Or like, my crop and souls one. They were like, first of all, I like to thank God. I like to thank my mom and my dad. And it was very sweet, actually. Like, people were crying, actually. I love. That was an awesome graduation. My other graduation, it was like.

01:13:58
Veronika Becher
Like.

01:13:58
Tommy Godwin
Because it was bigger. It was like yours, where people would just, like, walk up. But there were. There were some dancers in the ids. There's some dancing people.

01:14:08
Veronika Becher
Yeah. Do you. I feel like. I don't know. I. I enjoyed it. Four years where I always tell people, if you have the chance, go through all four years. Do not. Like, if you have.

01:14:22
Tommy Godwin
You don't want them to graduate, really.

01:14:23
Veronika Becher
I get why people do it, and some people hate school, but I feel like all four years were important for me to develop myself, who I am. Like, it was not even about school. It was more about my social circles, knowing what I want, who I am, where I'm standing in life. It was something I feel like I could have not experienced if I would have walked a different path. And I literally told my mom today, I actually applied to art school. I don't know if.

01:14:52
Tommy Godwin
I don't know if you knew out of high school. You didn't.

01:14:54
Veronika Becher
Yeah, I did not make it. I had a portfolio, everything. And I did not like my paintings. And I told myself, I'm going to apply to business school in art school because I like both paths. And I wanted to go into design management will be like working with artists, but being still a manager. And it's funny because I'm looking back on it. I was so upset. I was crying so much. I broke down in tears. From the moment I got the decline. And I made the joke. I made the joke. I'm like, I feel like there's a personality in our history, in a German history that didn't make it art school and went to politics. And there was a dark humor joke.

01:15:39
Tommy Godwin
That I threw at my mom, that German dark humor.

01:15:42
Veronika Becher
She was laughing so hard. I'm like, this is what happens when Veronika enters the business school. No, don't worry, I'm not going to be a dictator. But basically, sorry for the joke. I had to.

01:15:53
Tommy Godwin
No, no problem.

01:15:55
Veronika Becher
And I look back, I do not regret being in business. I do not regret walking the way I did. And I feel like everything happens for a good reason.

01:16:05
Tommy Godwin
Okay.

01:16:07
Veronika Becher
Yeah.

01:16:07
Tommy Godwin
It sounds like your closing statement right now. Do my. You wanna hear my Khalil? Yes. I really regret double majoring.

01:16:18
Veronika Becher
Oh, my gosh. What?

01:16:20
Tommy Godwin
That was a terrible idea. Oh, wait, I don't know. Do I have regrets? Yeah, I do. Because double majoring or I don't have regrets. I don't know. Maybe it'll help me. Right now, everyone in my department has jobs but me. But they started looking earlier, so that's what I'm telling myself. And I have two degrees. I'm like, hey, I have. That's double the jobs, right? You get two degrees. Yeah, but, like, I think, you know, everyone's past is different. Like, you can't, like, make a conclusion about what college is life. Or, like, you should do this or you should that, or in my opinion, like, a lot of people, college isn't for them. They drop out. And a lot of people, college is not a fun experience. And a lot of people, they really struggle.

01:17:09
Tommy Godwin
Like, or we all struggle, but it was not fun. And I tried really hard to make the most of college, but I also didn't. Like, I had a lot of trouble, like, integrating myself in the community and, like, being myself, especially out of the pandemic, like, oh, my God, Like, I am. Like, who is that? Like, I was this just nervous ball, anxious ball. And I think there's a lot of things in college I didn't really enjoy, and I don't really. I feel like sometimes people are just so in their own bubble. Like, all these, like, students. And I felt like I was like, oh, man, I don't belong here. Like, it's kind of like my personality is just wanting to be in a separate path or, like, make my own path and.

01:18:06
Tommy Godwin
But, I mean, in the end, like, I can't say what will be useful to me in my life, but I don't really regret it because I worked hard in college and I tried my best. And I see a lot of. Or, like, when I see these freshmen come in, or, like, when we did satellite together, like, when were counselors, like, talking to those high schoolers. Talking to high schoolers really is, like, make you learn about yourself. Or like, oh, I was just like, these kids. Like, I'm just like, we're not even that far apart. Like, we're only a couple years in age, but it's just like, dang, I did not know what I was getting myself into. Like, these kids are so. Like, they're a little naive, but they have all these dreams, and it's like. It's, like, beautiful in a way, but.

01:18:56
Tommy Godwin
And now it's like, okay, I'm. I'm leaving this place. You're, like, in this little community. And now, you know, that's, like, a big step. And I don't really feel too. Anything about it. Like, it's really. I'm not, like, upset. I'm grateful for everything.

01:19:19
Veronika Becher
I like how I like to joke. Freshmen have these, like. Like. Like their eyes are sparkling. They're like, oh, my gosh, big university, big experience. We were gonna do so much. And then the second year, you just see how this spark dies down.

01:19:33
Tommy Godwin
I think it's. Yeah.

01:19:34
Veronika Becher
Like, reality hits you in your face and you're like, oh, my gosh, what just happened? And so I think the challenge that I. In the advice I would give to, like, freshmen in general, like, students in college, is bring back the spark, but maybe not do what you feel thought will be the case, but rather be flexible. Understand that things will not go the way you always want. You will not get into everything you want to get into. Sometimes life is not linear at all. And that's okay. But because you experience the downs, you will experience the ups too. And only because you have downs, you know what ups are like. So just having this, like, structure of it's not a linear path, but it will eventually get to a better end and you will graduate hopefully.

01:20:22
Veronika Becher
And even if it takes you a semester longer than everyone else, that's fine too. I've met so many people that dropped out of college and came back that have kids, a family. There are so many paths that are like non traditional that I think should be more considered as a traditional path than not. You don't have to finish everything in four years. You can take a break, you can explore a different major, figure out that five different majors were not your thing, but you finally discovered this is your major. And even then, maybe you won't be even in the end working in your major at all. And I think being open to meeting people, I think that's what it is. And for me, it's like, I look back, I'll miss college, but I'll miss the people.

01:21:07
Tommy Godwin
Yeah, no, like that being open, that's something I'm also like, glad or like wanting to change. Being open to change. Like, like if you're not open to it, there's always like, it's not going to impact you the way you want it to, if you want it to transform yourself. But yeah, what you're saying about like freshmen, I feel like junior year is when the light finally dies.

01:21:33
Veronika Becher
Yeah. Software's like, there's like 2% still left. A junior is like, I just want to graduate. Will I even be able to graduate? I have another year and it's not getting better. No, I. I feel you. And I think bringing back the spark for me was finding people I connect with. Having this podcast was something bringing back my spark. It was not always about business school. It was not always about my major. It was about the experiences outside. It was realizing that studying 20 hours a day for the exam won't give you always a better grade. Realizing that sometimes taking a break of 30 minutes will probably give you a better break. You feel more recharged, you getting two hours more sleep before the exam will give you better results. Even though it feels like you are not prepared yet.

01:22:22
Veronika Becher
Going into an exam you did not study for, but you're still taking it because, you know, maybe you can get a good grade is the fact that you're trying. There are a lot of, like, little paths and little decisions that made me realize how much grades don't always matter as much. It's not always the internships that you had, the CV that you're building up your LinkedIn profile for your business school. I mean, what do you mean?

01:22:51
Tommy Godwin
Like your life is bigger.

01:22:53
Veronika Becher
Than that or I think, yes. In college, in the end, it feels.

01:23:00
Tommy Godwin
Like the experience is a lot more than that.

01:23:02
Veronika Becher
Yeah, yeah. And you think four years were like a lot. But in the big picture, just four years. Just a lot of things happened in four years. That's why it's so, like, great. But I think you can get so much more out of life. And life doesn't end just in four years.

01:23:17
Tommy Godwin
Right. Taking and taking care of yourself, like, what you're saying about that, like, taking breaks and stuff because. Right. I mean, that's a lot of, like, programs these days are looking at that. Like, do they have hobbies? Or like, that was like, with the interviews, they're like, okay, do these people have, like, hobbies? And one girl, she's like, I do yoga and I go to bed at 8pm and I'm like, who. Who is this high schooler? But I don't know, like, the idea of like taking care of yourself, I think is important because. No, I think a lot of people neglect that. Or I did.

01:23:54
Veronika Becher
Yeah. I stood it in senior year. But I think it's just you understanding when you need to put effort in and when you have to sacrifice sleep and when you have. It's not worth it.

01:24:06
Tommy Godwin
Oh, for real. Sacrifice. Sacrifice sleep. Don't sacrifice sleep.

01:24:11
Veronika Becher
I did.

01:24:12
Tommy Godwin
I did too. Who didn't?

01:24:14
Veronika Becher
It. I wrote a thesis. It was like thesis graduation or no graduation. So I'm like, four years, we're doing it. Not something I recommend people do, but do you have to wrap it up? Do you have any last advices? Maybe your thoughts, feelings about agriculture, graduation, finishing up your degree, next steps, what? Anything you would like to leave our listeners with?

01:24:45
Tommy Godwin
Leave your listeners with.

01:24:47
Veronika Becher
Oh, shit.

01:24:51
Tommy Godwin
I unplugged the headset. I don't know. I didn't really. I wasn't expecting to give advice today.

01:25:01
Veronika Becher
I was like, you have to.

01:25:04
Tommy Godwin
I was like, oh, I'm just gonna talk about myself, but advice, you know, I don't feel. A lot of times I don't feel qualified to give advice or I try to not. I don't like when I give people advice. I like, do you want my advice? Honestly, I hate sometimes I hate when old or when I was younger, I hated when older people gave me advice. Like as a freshman or sophomore, they'd be like, you need to get your work life balance. Or I don't know, I just Always found it, like, these people are talking down to me. But advice, I mean, like, yeah, you're gonna go up through ups and downs in life. It's so weird.

01:25:48
Veronika Becher
What.

01:25:48
Tommy Godwin
What am I doing? Giving in. I think, like, if I would give advice to someone going into college, it would be like, that. I think there's all this expectation that people come with of what it's gonna be like, and they have expectations of themselves and it's going and what's going into it, and they have an expectation of what they're gonna. Life is gonna be like and what they're gonna learn in the program they're gonna be in. And I think it's just inevitable that you will be disappointed by certain things. And even people who love college, there's just things that go with it that are not fun. And a lot of people really struggle. And I struggled, but what really kept me going or is thinking about my. Like, why am I here? And finding reasons.

01:26:53
Tommy Godwin
You find reasons to keep going and to work hard, and you meet people who inspire you. So that's something I really am grateful for. Like, the university is, like, more than, like, an institution. The people that were there, I think, were the most, like, inspiring part of it. And when you're. When your house is knocked down, right? Like, compare it. Like, when you go through really hard times. Like, I had. Times, like, I had really bad depression, really bad anxiety. Just, like, thinking about things that happen in my life or. And, like, being at this place and feeling isolated. And it's like when a tornado destroys your home or something, you're stuck on the side of the river and you're stranded.

01:27:46
Tommy Godwin
It can be like, those can be very transformative moments in your life or moments where you learn a lot about yourself and that those transformative moments you end up being grateful for, like, in the long run. But you also need to recognize when I need to get help or when I need to help myself, I need to work on myself, but always. And just take care of yourself. Like, I just. I hate seeing people, like, kill themselves over stuff and. Because I see myself in that.

01:28:24
Veronika Becher
No, I think that's a good. Good ending. No, seriously, don't kill yourself. This is bad. No, but so true. Like, I think I can relate to that a lot, actually. Not the killing, but the. The anxiety part.

01:28:43
Tommy Godwin
And the killing.

01:28:45
Veronika Becher
Yeah, like, I can relate to the anxiety part. Oh, my gosh.

01:28:50
Tommy Godwin
I don't think I. I didn't say anything about killing, did I?

01:28:52
Veronika Becher
No.

01:28:54
Tommy Godwin
What?

01:28:56
Veronika Becher
Okay, fine. This is. This is a good sign. My dear listeners, that we try to ruin your podcast. It's okay. It's okay. That's ex. No, I can relate to the anxiety part because we all get anxious. We all get anxious after we graduate. And so I hope you guys enjoy this episode. It was kind of a little bit over the place, but I feel like that's exactly how graduation actually feels like. I'm joking.

01:29:20
Tommy Godwin
Sorry I was all over the place.

01:29:22
Veronika Becher
You were so unstable. I'm talking about myself. But that's what a month does to you. And so for every graduate out there, I hope you find your way. Don't worry too much. Even if you have to be unemployed for a year, hashtag me. Or like you will go into grad school again or not. And maybe you'll pursue something else and get married. Who knows? There are so many paths out there. How to get a green card.

01:29:52
Tommy Godwin
But basically, someone marry this girl. Someone get this girl a green card.

01:29:59
Veronika Becher
Today's my last day before my visa runs out, so starting tomorrow, actually, I'm on a grace period and I am, technically speaking, non existent in the United States. So I'm really happy for this podcast. I hope there will be another episode, but if not, thank you so much for listening to Identity Library. Thank you, Tommy, for being here again. So, so happy that you were one of my, like last to people to interview and full circle. Right. Someone who I met a year ago and then being sold on podcast. Yeah. Go out in the world. Remember your ordinary people.

01:30:39
Tommy Godwin
Spread your wings. Remember, you're beautiful. Okay.

01:30:43
Veronika Becher
Thank you for destroying my ending. But be ordinary people. But we do extraordinary things every single day. Thank you so much for listening.